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Asp-Z
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13 Jul 2010, 3:57 am

Chronos wrote:
Todesking wrote:
I am a very big and have very little if not no empathy for people I do not know. The only thing that keeps me from doing it is my fear of going to prison.


That technically makes you a sociopath...maybe a psychopath if you hair impaired social skills.

There isn't a sociopath/psychopath support page because they generally don't care enough about others with their "condition" to make one.


I honestly think that, if there was no consequence to the action, everyone would break the law. There'd be riots and madness. If that wasen't true, and everyone could just be trusted, why do we need a government and courts in the first place?



Todesking
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13 Jul 2010, 10:32 am

Chronos wrote:
Todesking wrote:
I am a very big and have very little if not no empathy for people I do not know. The only thing that keeps me from doing it is my fear of going to prison.


That technically makes you a sociopath...maybe a psychopath if you hair impaired social skills.

There isn't a sociopath/psychopath support page because they generally don't care enough about others with their "condition" to make one.


I have more traits that seem to be more Aspergers like.

Walk - I stagger when I walk and drag my feet. Escalators and rotating doors cause me anxiety and make me a little dizzy.

Talk - I talk loudly, mumble, and stammer. I drag my vowels when I talk. I can talk non-stop about special interests and news events that interest me.

Saying inappropriate things - I laugh at gory accidents, say off the wall funny stuff that people laugh at but say that’s messed up, I love insulting people before they can insult me. I talk too much and about special interests. I also interrupt people all the time. Correct grammar so much that it spills out of my mouth before I know I am doing it, but only with people I know. I sometimes laugh at inappropriate things like someone tells me some has died or has a terminal illness I must cover my mouth to keep from laughing.

Facial expressions - I have the facial expression of a statue. I look younger than my actual age.

Touch - I cannot be touched or touch people. I have not gotten a haircut since 1993. I do not like the sound scissors make when they cut my hair or the vibration of electric clippers on the back of my neck. I cannot go to the dentist because I hate being touched or having the dentists fingers in my mouth

Eye contact - I fake eye contact even with people I know I look at foreheads and mouths

Eat - I eat like a slob, my co-workers said watching me eat in the break room was very entertaining like a dinner and show. LoL. I could easily eat the same thing everyday without getting board of it. My co-workers have had to beg me to try a different place to eat when I get food on lunch breaks. The people at the counter always knew my order before I got to the counter.

Clothes - I use to wear either black or gray t-shirts and blue jeans. My co-workers made me buy t-shirts of different colors because they said people were saying I was wearing the same thing everyday. They were tired of telling people I had five gray shirts and five black t-shirts.

Stimming - I pace and tap my feet. I use to rock at school but my 2nd grade teacher got me to stop so people would not think I was weird.

Slow - I walk slow, work slow, and take my time to do everything.

Collections - I collect role-playing games, role-playing dice, and Fangoria horror magazines. I put more value in my collects than I do people.

Empathy - I have no empathy for people outside of my family and dogs. I could care less if someone is suffering or dying. I am uncomfortable around people showing affection towards one another. Such as kissing or hugging. I am easy to insult quick to fight.

Clean Freak - I cannot stand to have oily, dirty, greasy, or sticky hands. Drives me up the wall. I have to force my self to shake hands, bump fists, or high fives due to coming in contact with other people's nasty hands. But I would wear dirty clothes.

Noises - The sound of dogs barking, test beeps of fire alarms, police/ambulance sirens, babies crying, knives/forks scrapping dishes, and people loudly breathing through their noses when they eat set off my anger or anxiety.

Forgetfulness - I forget words mid sentence I sometimes forget what I am saying mid-sentence. I constantly loose books, t.v. Remotes, shoes, and tools at work right after I have set them down then return for them like 15 minutes later only to forget where they are. I get lost taking busses.

Suggestibility – When I was a child the other kids use to talk me into doing bad things. Vandalism, setting fires, and swearing at adults we did not know then we would run off.

Special Interests – I collect all the data I can find on stop-motion animation, survival, comic art of Richard Corben and French artist Moebius, and military uniforms throughout the centuries. I collect enough information to fill three or four dvds on many different subjects.

Routine – I had specific place to sit for the entire 9 years I worked at a machine shop in the break room. My work area everything had a specific place to put things. When thing were not in their place I would get angry


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Chronos
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13 Jul 2010, 12:59 pm

Todesking wrote:
Empathy - I have no empathy for people outside of my family and dogs. I could care less if someone is suffering or dying. I am uncomfortable around people showing affection towards one another. Such as kissing or hugging. I am easy to insult quick to fight.


There are other traits you list that I disagree with as being AS traits, but I take the most issue with this one. I do not think it correct to say that lacking empathy is an AS trait. This is an NT misconception based on the fact that people with AS don't always know that we should express empathy because of a mis-interpretation of the social situation.I may think someone isn't as upset as they are about a situation, and so fail to express empathy because I did not realize the person was so upset.

I can think of quite a few circumstances where the individuals involved were upset and I had not realized it so seemed unphased. Of course had I realized at the time they were upset, I would have express empathy for them.

People who feel little or no empathy for others are schizoid or are on the sociopath spectrum.

I do not think it is an ASD issue and that it only appears such due to NT misunderstandings. One of the most empathetic people I know has moderately functioning autism and at least with them you know they are not faking it like NT's sometimes do.



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13 Jul 2010, 1:09 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
I honestly think that, if there was no consequence to the action, everyone would break the law. There'd be riots and madness. If that wasen't true, and everyone could just be trusted, why do we need a government and courts in the first place?


One interesting thing that makes anarchism a bit unrealistic is the fact that humans naturally eventually fall into some type of governmental system.

For example, in Papau/New Guinea, though most of the tribes are autonomous and there is not much in the way of a central government, they still have their methods of dealing with thieves and murderers and those who cause unrest.

Situations of complete chaos where rioting, looting, and killing goes on typically only happens immediately after some perceived breakdown of government, or in the course of a mob mentality.

Many people do not participate in these things though. Most humans have an innate predisposition towards empathy, guilt, remorse and altruism and this is due to the fact that we are social animals and harming another individual may ultimately put us in harms way.

Humans are actually more altruistic than chimps. This is probably due to the fact that we are physically weak and our early human ancestors relied much more on the help of other humans than chimps do other chimps.



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13 Jul 2010, 1:17 pm

Chronos wrote:
Todesking wrote:
Empathy - I have no empathy for people outside of my family and dogs. I could care less if someone is suffering or dying. I am uncomfortable around people showing affection towards one another. Such as kissing or hugging. I am easy to insult quick to fight.


There are other traits you list that I disagree with as being AS traits, but I take the most issue with this one. I do not think it correct to say that lacking empathy is an AS trait. This is an NT misconception based on the fact that people with AS don't always know that we should express empathy because of a mis-interpretation of the social situation.I may think someone isn't as upset as they are about a situation, and so fail to express empathy because I did not realize the person was so upset.

I can think of quite a few circumstances where the individuals involved were upset and I had not realized it so seemed unphased. Of course had I realized at the time they were upset, I would have express empathy for them.

People who feel little or no empathy for others are schizoid or are on the sociopath spectrum.

I do not think it is an ASD issue and that it only appears such due to NT misunderstandings. One of the most empathetic people I know has moderately functioning autism and at least with them you know they are not faking it like NT's sometimes do.


I do not know if someone is upset unless they are screaming at me or crying.


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redwulf25_ci
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13 Jul 2010, 1:18 pm

Todesking wrote:
Ambivalence wrote:
Todesking wrote:
Am I the only who hopes the bare foot bandit gets turned into the bare ass bandit in prison? Hope he has the worst time in prison.

I hope you are the only one foolish and morally blind enough to want that, but I fear that you are among many who believe rape is somehow a tool of justice. :twisted:


The fear of prison rape keeps me from hitting another person, keeps from killing, keeps me from dealing drugs, and keeps me from stealing.


Whereas I don't do those things because I recognize that it's wrong to hurt others. People who only behave in a moral fashion due to fear of punishment frighten me.



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13 Jul 2010, 4:55 pm

thechadmaster wrote:
Ambivalence wrote:
I fear that you are among many who believe rape is somehow a tool of justice. :twisted:


it can be. i no its not applicable in this situation, but i have no sympathy for convicted rapists who get raped in prison. now they realize the magnitude of their crime.


>>> Well these barbarian criminals rape US, why can't we do the same to them? You work hard for a car, then some stupid little car jacker puts a gun to your face, or steals a car that you worked perhaps a year or two of your life to get money, to by doing honest work. Then it's gone in 60 seconds. Not to mention the psychological trouble this young punk caused you by putting a gun to your face in the first place. Like Car jacking was a big problem up here in Canada, in Winnipeg, and Edmonton.

They chose this life of animalistic hedonism. They chose to use their intelligence for working in violent trades, it's reasonable they will encounter very violent people in the trade.



Followthereaper90
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13 Jul 2010, 5:36 pm

sillycat wrote:
thechadmaster wrote:
Ambivalence wrote:
I fear that you are among many who believe rape is somehow a tool of justice. :twisted:


it can be. i no its not applicable in this situation, but i have no sympathy for convicted rapists who get raped in prison. now they realize the magnitude of their crime.


>>> Well these barbarian criminals rape US, why can't we do the same to them? You work hard for a car, then some stupid little car jacker puts a gun to your face, or steals a car that you worked perhaps a year or two of your life to get money, to by doing honest work. Then it's gone in 60 seconds. Not to mention the psychological trouble this young punk caused you by putting a gun to your face in the first place. Like Car jacking was a big problem up here in Canada, in Winnipeg, and Edmonton.

They chose this life of animalistic hedonism. They chose to use their intelligence for working in violent trades, it's reasonable they will encounter very violent people in the trade.
in most american cars like honda prelude there has system that prevents stealing as long the engine is running car doors are locked and will not open


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13 Jul 2010, 7:45 pm

We're talking about a guy who chose to live a life of crime. This is part of the life. We are not talking about anti thief features of a car. I only use the car metaphor as an example of CRIME.



eon
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13 Jul 2010, 9:02 pm

Perhaps this is tangential, but with the direction this discussion has taken I must add these thoughts:

I disagree with saying "empathy" is only affected insomuch as the affected person isn't aware of how to express it.
It's not an NT stereotype to say that empathy is impaired. For me this is pragmatically the essential feature. It is why I live an internal life and feel that I am observing a world through translucent membrane.


The fact is that what's impaired is intuition. Most people would sense another's emotion. The theory is that it is caused by nonverbal cues, which when picked up generate the emotion intuitively. You sense the person's mood, when the cues do what they are supposed to.

So when one of us says our empathy doesn't exist, this is what it means. We don't mean we can't UNDERSTAND the sadness or whichever feeling of the other person, or know that it exists once they are crying or shutting down. We can understand this. We just aren't plugged in to the sense that tells us the feelings are there. It also doesn't mean we don't have introspective feelings that are empathetic about others, just that the occurrence is more rare.


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