MONSTER

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Joined: 8 Jan 2007
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29 Jul 2010, 12:15 am

What if... the OP is trying to post this to provoke a negative reaction?

Oh wait, that's not an if.

Don't feed the troll.

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Seanmw
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29 Jul 2010, 12:19 am

Seanmw wrote:

*sounds the troll siren*
*rings the troll bell*
*kicks the troll gong*

:smurf:

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Ixtli
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29 Jul 2010, 12:21 am

TeaEarlGreyHot
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29 Jul 2010, 12:22 am

Seanmw wrote:

*sounds the troll siren*
*rings the troll bell*
*kicks the troll gong*

:smurf:

Hey, it was still fun to try and find a legitimate debate in there somewhere. I think we succeeded.

Not many people seem to be responding, though. *has a sad*

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ColdBlooded
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29 Jul 2010, 12:28 am

Well, the idea of "good and evil" doesn't make sense to me in the first place... But if i were to invent my own standards of what is good and what is evil, i'd say i'm *perfectly* good :wink: , so, no, not evil.

TeaEarlGreyHot
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29 Jul 2010, 12:35 am

ColdBlooded wrote:

Well, the idea of "good and evil" doesn't make sense to me in the first place... But if i were to invent my own standards of what is good and what is evil, i'd say i'm *perfectly* good :wink:

, so, no, not evil.

I think morality (good v evil) was something that evolved in our species as a way to survive as a group. Murder took away vital members of the group, and therefore was wrong. Theft hurt another member of the group, which could lead to the loss of a member. Bad.

Eventually, the idea that bad things were evil developed. Most likely out of the view of the hostile environment around them. Hunt, kill, eat... if you do none of these, you either died through starvation or you became pray.

As groups grew larger, the loss of one or more member became less of a set back. However, the idea that it was wrong remained. So, when one group member hurt another, it was seen as evil.

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Ixtli
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29 Jul 2010, 12:39 am

Quote:

man is most contemptible when compared with his own pretensions

- H.P. Lovecraft

This is what some of you are saying, right?

It's probably the easiest position to argue, given the inconsistency and frequent perversity of human behaviour. I'm still trying to figure out whether it's possible to be good or evil in a classical, absolute sense. Nothing conclusive yet.

Ferdinand
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29 Jul 2010, 12:39 am

You see, I disagree. I do not see morality as that big of a logical gap in earlier humans. Society is made which takes away a person's liberty for their safety. There has to be rules.

Ixtli
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29 Jul 2010, 12:42 am

Ferdinand wrote:

Quote:

There has to be rules.

Sure, but I think law and morality are being considered separately here.

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29 Jul 2010, 12:44 am

Ixtli wrote:

Ferdinand wrote:

Quote:

There has to be rules.

Sure, but I think law and morality are being considered separately here.

Of course. Excuse my lapse in judgement. It's almost two.

TeaEarlGreyHot
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29 Jul 2010, 12:44 am

Ferdinand wrote:

You see, I disagree. I do not see morality as that big of a logical gap in earlier humans. Society is made which takes away a person's liberty for their safety. There has to be rules.

Oh, I'm not saying rules are obsolete. I was just explaining how the idea of good and evil developed.

There's no question that for a society to succeed, there has to be some uniform morals. For Americans, it's 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness'. If you impede any of these, you are wrong. Evil, however, is a whole other level. I don't think anyone is 'evil'. There are tendencies in just about everyone, and some choose to act on them. Most do not.

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Last edited by TeaEarlGreyHot on 29 Jul 2010, 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

TeaEarlGreyHot
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29 Jul 2010, 12:45 am

Ixtli wrote:

Ferdinand wrote:

Quote:

There has to be rules.

Sure, but I think law and morality are being considered separately here.

How so? Laws are based on core morals of the society.

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Ferdinand
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29 Jul 2010, 12:47 am

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Ixtli wrote:

Ferdinand wrote:

Quote:

There has to be rules.

Sure, but I think law and morality are being considered separately here.

How so? Laws are based on core morals of the society.

I am sure that was the point I was trying to make. I need sleep.

Ixtli
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29 Jul 2010, 12:53 am

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Quote:

Laws are based on core morals of the society.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Many laws are in place to make money or simply for some kind of convenience. I guess they're often justified in a moral way, though.

But morality is often distinguished from law, the former being divine or otherwise absolute -- higher, let's say -- and the latter being manmade, lower, a product of necessity. It's my philosophy to always distinguish the two (really obvious cases like murder etc. notwithstanding), and many philosophers and theologians are with me on that. The two just happen to intersect at times.

I see now why you object to this idea -- you say morality arose from the necessity of law (yeah, I'm paraphrasing something fierce.) Maybe so. Probably so, even. I guess it depends on what kind of causality you see.

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29 Jul 2010, 12:55 am

I sometimes wonder what I would have been like if I never had hearing loss. What would my life have been like if I was an NT. I would have never gone to Europe that's for sure nor see the Benny & Joon locations. Maybe I would have never met my husband because I would have been meeting people in real life than online and maybe be with another guy instead. I may have baby sat in my teens and have had friends and gone to parties and have a whole group of friends.

TeaEarlGreyHot
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29 Jul 2010, 12:57 am

Ixtli wrote:

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:

Quote:

Laws are based on core morals of the society.

This is where we aren't agreeing. I don't see morality as inherently religious. In fact, I believe religion was actually the next step in the evolution of morality.

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