Aspergers and low intelligence?

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Wikipedia.....good enough for him.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillip_Markoff



Oy vey....he was a member of the young republicans too.

I can't say i'm overly-shocked by that.


Markoff:






Julissa Brisman...the women he murdered:







Both "attractive" young people according to the usual standards. No doubt this is part of the reason it was such a hot story in the US.

No I think she means personality wise, i.e. it's immediately obvious by their cluelessness.

That's what I thought as well, but I couldn't be certain since my mind-reading abilities have been a bit rusty lately.


In any case.....she provided the answer already.

Nutter. Looks like a guy with a lot of hate inside him. All women he killed/robbed? Another aspie woman hater. World is better off without him.

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Last edited by Horus on 29 Aug 2010, 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Last edited by Horus on 29 Aug 2010, 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hale_bopp~


Markoff was not an Aspie. This has never been suggested by anyone and there is no evidence for it.


Sorry if I didn't make that clear and I can see how you might have gotten that impression.


He *only* murdered the one women....Julissa Brisman.


He robbed two others, though there may be more victims we don't know about.


He met all these women on the "adult/erotic services" section of Craigslist.


A women-hater?....sure seems like it.....an Aspie?....no

From what I have heard (and observed), people like that get arrogant. They think they are so brilliant that anything they do is bound to succeed. And that's the point at which, regardless of how "intelligent" they are, they get caught. It's not as much that they subconsciously want to get caught (although some could, who knows), but that they get caught up in their own brilliance and "oh wow I am so good at this" kind of thing, and forget to do the things that any less arrogant person would do if they really wanted to not get caught.

I've observed this in a guy I used to know who is brilliant in the typical sense of the word, but the sort of person who only doesn't kill people because it'd be too much work, and lies constantly. He is always getting into these various schemes to mess with other people. One time for instance he convinced an underage teen that he was offering her a job at his company. When she got there, there was no company at all, just him wanting sex now and not taking no for an answer. That's just one example. But anyway, in a lot of his schemes, there are holes galore. Holes even I can spot despite not being the kind of whiz at intellectual stuff he is. He believes himself so invincible that he will never get caught. He does get caught periodically but that rarely dissuades him for long, and he is sure he can weasel his way out even if he does get caught (he can sometimes, not others, but that doesn't stop him either). His lies are also interesting because they are so blatant sometimes that he once lied about the existence of photographs on his website that still existed in the Google cache at the time, and he tells that level of really stupid lies on a regular basis. And once you know him for long, he gets known for his lies. But his arrogance knows no bounds, so he doesn't get how easy it is for people who know him, to see through him. And people who commit these crimes often have the same kind of mindset he does. Where they may have technical academic intelligence, and they could get away with things if they really tried hard enough, but they don't try because they convince themselves they're so cool they don't have to, basically.

Just a comment about watching forums for "evidence" of what Asperger's is or isn't. Don't. Don't draw much for conclusions from it anyway.

It's a bad idea. Writing is the key element on forums, and the most active members are going to like writing. No way on earth you're going to get an accurate cross section from watching forums. Those who don't like to write aren't here much. Very few who aren't at least somewhat good at writing are here either.

High intelligence is not a requirement for Asperger's. Neither is low intelligence. High Functioning doesn't mean high intelligence High Funciton is in comparison to severe Autism and is only in relation to the ability to take care of oneself as far as daily functioning. For example, the ability to feed oneself, dress oneself, etc. It's not in relation to hi IQ or ability to excel at academics. Some of us can. Some of us can't.

I did not do well in public school at all. I didn't even attempt college until I was almost thirty, and i wasn't ready yet. I dropped both courses, then tried again a few years later and completed two, but couldn't handle more. Got a C and a B. I did eventually return a few years ago, but all online. Now that online degrees are available, I had a shot. I did fair for a year, then changed degrees and colleges, nailing a 4.0 average for two years. The difference for me was the final two years were all in a subject that matched my "special interest." Music! Specifically, Music Technology.

I don't have a Masters. I earned an associate degree. I'm fifty. Don't feel so bad about yourself. We're not all mad geniuses. In fact, I suspect most of us haven't earned any degrees.

It just may look that way from the writing, but anybody that loves writing enough and does enough of it can end up sounding like that. And you're going to find more of them on forums and blogs than anywhere, so any conclusions drawn from watching them are going to be biased.

anbuend~



Everything you said has basically been my understanding of the matter at hand too. Perhaps it's a theory of mind thing with me, i'm not sure.

That is....I just can't imagine why any criminal would make these incredibly stupid mistakes if they truly didn't want to be caught on some level. Like you said...maybe some do on a subconscious level or something, but that's probably not the case for most.

The serial killer Dennis Rader was also caught after making a very stupid mistake. He was communicating with the police and asked them if it would be possible to trace his information from a floppy disk he wanted to send them. Needless to say....the authorities took full advantage of this idiotic question, lied to him and told him there was no means of tracing his info from the floppy he wanted to send.

He sent the floppy and largely, if not entirely because of that, he is now serving 10 consecutive life sentences.


This guy you knew sounds like a real piece of work. Based upon what you wrote....i'm guessing he's been convicted of SOMETHING by now right?


I believe Hitler's stupid mistakes (which seem to start in earnest during the evacuation at Dunkirk) are the main reasons the entire world isn't under the swastika today. His own arrogance and megalomania just happened to be our greatest ally IMO.

I am also over 25 and don´t have a degree. My overall (mean) grade was 7.0 when I was kicked out of the university. . But the time I spent there was an awful time for me in which I had personal problems and I also didn´t like the course. I think that I kept pushing it because of my parent´s pressure and because I was affraid that I wouldn´t have a job if I quit the course. I sucked at calculus (5.0 in both courses) but was good in statistics (in part because I thought that studying statistics I was studying something useful in opposition to calculus). LOL! That is my moto "morale can win battles" although not always. Also I was very disorganized, sometimes I didn´t know the dates of the tests and couldn´t make a schedule to study. So I would study other subjects and sometimes I was completly lost. I guess that planning might be a problem for other aspies as well. Even if I was in the mood for studying I could not organize a study plan and would eventually fail. I will try to study something that I actually like when I return to the university that must be the key to succeed!

I am not sure if he does. I'm sure he's done things that could get him caught. He's robbed at least two people (and that's only two that I know of because I know the people involved, I do not know this guy well and haven't even paid attention to him in a really long time), and there was the whole thing with that girl (which he didn't get caught for since she didn't press charges, very low self-esteem on her part), many people have seen him shoplift, and he once bragged in front of me about how many felonies he could commit at once (although since he's a habitual liar, even that's not certain). But I haven't really wanted to pry into his life enough to find out what the cops have and haven't been involved in. I also know he at least used to be good at "looking innocent", although AFAIK that's worn off the older he gets, and I do remember him faking a suicide attempt once to get out of trouble. So who knows. But given the sheer amount of stuff he's done in the small amount of time I had a chance to see it, odds are he's gotten caught for something.

I don't think intelligence is easy to define. I have known someone with a 9th grade education that had a well rounded general intelligence because he was self taught. I have known someone else with the same level of education and didn't know much about the world but was someone I considered to be wiser than the first.

I had several phycatrists tell my parents that I was basicaly ret*d. My IQ test came 79. I don't know if it is acceruate or not becuase in areas that intrest me, people think I am somekind of genius.

I'm more like Mick Avory, than I am like Rain Man, or Einstein.

I can't say i've met all that many people like this, but i've met a few and one who is potentially worse than this guy. One was a girl who I met in college and she was always making up rape/sexual abuse accusations...just to mention one thing. She was actually dating a friend of mine for awhile, but luckily for him, that didn't work out. She claimed that one female student she knew (who I suspect she had a grudge against for some reason) was sexually molesting young children along with her boyfriend. She said they took pictures of these crimes and this girl claimed the accused girl showed her these pictures.

I asked her why she didn't go to the authorities after seeing these pictures and she offered some excuse. It's been so many years, I don't even remember what the excuse was. Another time she accused a male student of attempting to rape her at a party. This turned out to be a big lie as well, but unfortunately, this student was beaten severely by a few of the girl's male friends who believed her. Another time she called my house while my friend (her bf at the time) was there and claimed she was raped by two men. Considering her tone (didn't sound like a person who was just raped would probably sound) as well as her past record of pathological lying...I immediately knew she was lying and I told her so. She actually finally admitted she was lying to both myself and my friend/her bf. When we asked why she would make up such a story, she simply said something like...."idk...I was just looking for attention I guess".

She was also a chronic shoplifter and she was in and out of the psych ward several times per month. She set her parent's car on fire one time. Her parents were very good to her apparently and there was no evidence of abuse on their part. She told me she had been dxed with borderline personality disorder and another time she said she had been dxed with anti-social pd. While I don't doubt the latter, I often never knew when she was telling the truth and when she wasn't. The former seems very probable because, for one thing, she was also a serious "cutter"/self-mutilator. She later became a heroin addict and I made it very clear that I didn't want her around me anymore. I'm not sure what became of her...but I think she actually got married and moved to another part of the state with her husband.


Another guy I knew was potentially much more sinister. I don't even think I want to write too much about him as even the thought of him makes my skin crawl. All I will say is that while I have absolutely no evidence that he actually ever harmed anyone, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he turned out to be serial killer/torturer/sexual sadist. Out of my fascination for people like this (being a forensic psychologist was just one of my big "might have beens" in life ), I attempted to gain his trust just to see if there was anything he would reveal to me. If I do say so myself.....this attempt was more successful than I thought it would be. He actually told me he killed a few people (female victims were implied...but he was never really specific about that), "in cold blood" and buried them in an undisclosed location. I had no proof (and no access to any.....he was seemingly clever enough not to trust me ENOUGH and reveal too much or show me any bodies or whatever if he was telling the truth) that he was telling the truth, so there was really nothing I could do about it.


He told me I was only one of two people he had ever revealed this to. I do have strong doubts about his story though. He had no criminal record at all by the time I met him (he was 35 when I met him.... quite a bit older than I was at the time ) and neither I nor anyone else ever saw him lay a finger on anyone. I realize this means nothing and he could still be a serial killer or something....but I just think his claims were rather unlikely. Anyway....he moved away too not long after this revelation and I have no idea what became of him. I've never seen his name on the news or anything.... so if he really is a serial killer... he hasn't been caught yet.