I Need Explanations

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Clyde
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12 Nov 2010, 4:27 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:

They ARE heroes in the minds of many people. You are editorializing and projecting your own ideas into it. If you act as a detached observer, you should have no trouble recognizing what is important to the audience and report on that. To use an exaggerated example, if you were doing resteraunt reviews, you wouldn't go to an eatery, try the food but only report about the sexy waitress. Maybe the waitress as FAR more interesting to you (did you get her number?), but the readers don't give a rip about your crush.

I completely disagree.

I am being the observer. Unlike the people in class. They let their insight and what they believe about the fireman and the homeless man effect them.

I'm writing from a completely observational view.

For example they write, "A tragic day for George Honnan [example name] fire man and father of three..."

Where as I am writing, "Delta King Hotel burned down today after kitchen fire."

That's straight facts. That's important. That's the situation. That's the logical, straight to the point, observational view. Its Human Writing versus Observation writing.

The observation is the hotel burned, yeah a fireman was a casualty of it, but that isn't what is important or observational. Its a tie in to rip at people's heart strings.

wavefreak58
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12 Nov 2010, 4:35 pm

Clyde wrote:

Its a tie in to rip at people's heart strings.

EXACTLY. It's what people want to hear about.

What is your audience? If it were a preservation society, the story would be about the building. If it is people, they are interested in people.

Both are factual. A building burned down and a fireman died. Which is most important is defined by context. I would suggest using your observational skills to determine first the expectations of the audience, then use those same skills to gather the facts most interesting to them.

Clyde
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12 Nov 2010, 5:19 pm

Rose_in_Winter wrote:

Clyde wrote:

But fireman aren't heroes.

Why do you say that? I thnk anyone who regulary risks his or her life or well-being to help others is a hero. Maybe that is too emotional a response for you, I don't know.

To get more logical, Webster's College Dictionary defines hero thus:
he`ro : a man admired for his courage, fortitude, prowess, nobility, etc.

I'd say it takes a hell of a lot of courage and fortitide to rescue people from a burning building, or to face something (a raging fire) most people are eager to stay far away from.

Maybe you don't find those qualities admirable? Personally, I deeply admire courage, so I have no trouble seeing why a firefighter is a hero.

There is no such thing as true altruism.

Just as there is no such thing as true objectivity.

wavefreak58
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12 Nov 2010, 5:33 pm

Clyde wrote:

There is no such thing as true altruism.

Just as there is no such thing as true objectivity.

You keep arguing true points but are still not getting the grades you feel you deserve. Nothing you have said about what you find interesting is false. But it is irrelevant. If you are a journalist at a media outlet and the editors wants certain things, if you don't give it to them then you get fired. If you don't like the content, start your own company. Consider your teacher an editor.

Clyde
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12 Nov 2010, 5:51 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:

I understand this. But at the same time, this isn't where I want to write. Or how I want to write. I don't want to work for newspaper. Or anything that has to do with the LCD.

wavefreak58
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12 Nov 2010, 5:58 pm

Clyde wrote:

wavefreak58 wrote:

I understand this. But at the same time, this isn't where I want to write. Or how I want to write. I don't want to work for newspaper. Or anything that has to do with the LCD.

I understand that. You have to constantly keep what you want in your mind so you don't get off track, but along the way you have to still deal with things like a class where a teacher has a narrow view of what is acceptable. Sucks, but that's life. After you get out of school it will be a boss instead of a teacher. For the sake of the grades you want, you are going to have to do the very un aspie thing called compromising your interests.

ruveyn
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12 Nov 2010, 6:22 pm

Clyde wrote:

But fireman aren't heroes.

It just gets to me. It makes no logical sense. Why people believe what they believe.

Normal people run out of burning buildings. Firemen run into burning buildings to try to put the fire out and to rescue people trapped in the burning buildings. It it isn't heroic, at least it is useful.

ruveyn

Clyde
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12 Nov 2010, 9:16 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Clyde wrote:

But fireman aren't heroes.

It just gets to me. It makes no logical sense. Why people believe what they believe.

So? They run into the buildings because that is their job. I still don't see how if your hob entitles you to do something, that automatically makes you a hero.

Jediscraps
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12 Nov 2010, 9:26 pm

It's a job where they run into extreme danger to save not only historical structures but to save people and even animals.

They may get paid, even paid pretty well, but they're taking their chance to sacrifice their lives for others. A wage isn't going to be able to ressurect them.

Clyde
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12 Nov 2010, 11:22 pm

Jediscraps wrote:

And? Its part of their job detail.

I still so don't see it.

ToughDiamond
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15 Nov 2010, 8:06 am

Clyde wrote:

Jediscraps wrote:

And? Its part of their job detail.

I still so don't see it.

I admire firemen because I compare them to myself - I simply wouldn't do a job that required me to risk my life. Nobody is forced to be a fireman...at some point each one of them must have taken a free decision to join up. And in theory, if the danger seems to be getting too great, they can leave. Yet for some reason most of them keep at it, even though their pay and conditions are getting worse all the time - they even called off their strike on bonfire night. Of course it could be down to an unrealistic appraisal of the dangers, or inertia, but I suspect that for many of them it's the chance to do something socially worthy instead of lining the pockets of a capitalist.

I similarly have some admiration for soldiers and policemen, but in those cases the motives and social worth of their actual jobs can be less clear-cut, and could have more to do with a sociopathic desire to punish "the wicked" or to play around with big guns and stuff.

Lifeboatmen are the tops with me, because they're all about saving lives, and they don't even get paid.

ToughDiamond
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15 Nov 2010, 8:11 am

Clyde wrote:

ToughDiamond wrote:

Does he know you're autistic? If not he might be misconstruing what you say and do.....some of the idiots in my workplace were begining to turn nasty like that before I was diagnosed. I'm afraid that when the average person doesn't understand somebody's behaviour, they'll tend to have less respect for them, especially if the behaviour is awkward for them - in your case, it's awkward because he can't just expect the whole class to automatically understand what excites the readers by referring to what excites the class members. I remember some of my teachers would make a judgement on me within a couple of weeks of first meeting me, based on one or two negative observations, and after that they'd typecast me for life as a useless clown. They lacked the imagination to look for any evidence that challenged their first impression. I'm afraid a lot of teachers are weak and lazy in that way.

The way he seems to be saying it, he's assuming that this "human interest" thing applies not only to the buyers but also to the journalists, which is only reasonable for neurotypicals. I would think the only way to survive would be to delete "you" and insert "the readers" every time he makes that mistake. Trying to use your own mind as a fair example of a reader isn't going to work. I'd make a proper mess of it if I tried to be a journalist for any of the UK tabloids. I seem to be able to see straight through the way they sex up everything, and I find it hard not to feel contempt for anybody who falls for the scam. I could probably do the job if I absolutely had to, but I'd always feel annoyed that I was depending on public gullibility for my livelihood, I'd always be wondering "how can they be so stupid?"

No. He doesn't know I have Aspergers. Since my parents don't believe I have Aspergers, I'm not exactly diagnosed so I really don't have any proof.

But see, I don't want to write or be a journalist for the LCD [lowest common denominator]. I want to write for the not so majority. The people reading Science Magazines. And I want to be like the Gaslands, and the Sickos. Actually exposing a lie and bringing truth to the people.

That's difficult, if you don't have a diagnosis.

Glad you're aspiring to something better than the tabloids......it's a pity the teacher is so interested in the low-level stuff. Hopefully you'll be able to hold your nose and get by. I suppose learning the cheap tricks won't do you any harm as such.

Clyde
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15 Nov 2010, 9:47 am

ToughDiamond wrote:

Yeah it really is a bit of a problem. Without it, people think I'm this rude person who challenges their authority. But why do they never think on the level that I am just a curious person who likes to ask questions?

The teacher was an editor and reporter for the newspaper. All you ever hear him go on in the classroom is "newspaper this" and "newspaper that". "the newspaper is truly the most purest of all media".
Oh and he loves to show his articles from when he wasn't a professor, he loves to stroke his ego. Even if he doesn't say thats what he is doing.

Squirrelrat
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17 Nov 2010, 12:32 am

I would probably enjoy reading your stuff. When people around me fret over a news report, it seems like I'm always the only one who wants to hear more about the non-personal aspect feels like the reporter dodged the real issue. I'm always left with information I didn't want to know and questions that didn't get answered.

Clyde
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17 Nov 2010, 1:21 am

Squirrelrat wrote:

Thank you. Same here.

amber_missy
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17 Nov 2010, 8:27 am

I hate to say it, but (from what I understand) journalists aren't news reporters.

News reporters are those who find the stories and put together a factual report (the BBC tend to be good at this).

Journalists are the people who sell the news to other people. They are paid to take the story, add the "human angle" to make other people take notice. This can include politicising it for specific newspapers (eg. Daily Mail), or blowing it out of all proportions to make it sound more interesting than it is (eg. The Sun) or trying to pull at people's heart strings to get an emotional rise out of them.

It sounds to me that you want to be a news reporter, rather than a journalist...? But, if you want to try and complete the course, even if it's not your personal style to write in that way, it might be worth trying to write for "what they want to see", rather than "what happened"... I'm doing an environmental degree (distance learning) at the minute, but there's a lot of essay writing. For these essays, they don't necessarily want to know what you think about things, but they want to see and introduction, a structured arguament and a conclusion... I've had to really try hard to make sure that I include all of those bits, even though that's not my normal writing style.

Hope that helps?

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