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List one NT thing you DO understand

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eggshellbluesky
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23 Nov 2010, 4:21 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
Even people who claim not to be greedy and such need money to live, and even really charitable people wouldn't turn down a large sum of money because they could use it for philanthropy.


And those words are absolutely true for me as well. But wanting money and accepting that one needs money to live are very different things in my mind. I accept the necessity of money but I think I don't want it the same way that you do - I don't think you would grudgingly accept the need for money. That would describe my thoughts but it would probably not describe your thoughts?



Last edited by eggshellbluesky on 23 Nov 2010, 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wavefreak58
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23 Nov 2010, 4:22 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
Kenjuudo wrote:
Asp-Z wrote:
It's a basic fact: everyone wants money, whether they know it or not.
I disagree. This is just an assumption based on personal perspectives.


No it isn't. Everyone needs food and shelter, so everyone wants money to get it with.


In this culture at this time, true. But even now there are still places in the world where goods and services change hands without money



Asp-Z
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23 Nov 2010, 4:25 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
Asp-Z wrote:
Kenjuudo wrote:
Asp-Z wrote:
It's a basic fact: everyone wants money, whether they know it or not.
I disagree. This is just an assumption based on personal perspectives.


No it isn't. Everyone needs food and shelter, so everyone wants money to get it with.


In this culture at this time, true. But even now there are still places in the world where goods and services change hands without money


Well, obviously, I was only counting people in cultures which use money. People in cultures where money isn't used obviously have no need for it, that goes without saying.

To reiterate then, everyone in a culture which uses money, wants money.

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And those words are absolutely true for me as well. But wanting money and accepting that one needs money to live are very different things in my mind. I accept the necessity of money but I think I don't want it the same way that you do - I don't think you would grudgingly accept the need for money. That would describe my thoughts but it would probably not describe your thoughts?


Everyone wants it for different reasons and thinks of it differently. But everyone (in most cultures) still wants it.



eggshellbluesky
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23 Nov 2010, 4:40 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
Everyone wants it for different reasons and thinks of it differently. But everyone (in most cultures) still wants it.


It seems like we are tied up in semantics. It seems to me that your version of "want" incorporates the concept of "need" to a degree that my version of "want" does not.

Communications difficulties? In a thread on an aspergers/autism forum 8)

Also the original topic was interesting... We seem to have drifted 8O



Last edited by eggshellbluesky on 23 Nov 2010, 4:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Kenjuudo
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23 Nov 2010, 4:40 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
Everyone wants it for different reasons and thinks of it differently. But everyone (in most cultures) still wants it.
I disagree again. Partly this time. Because I want money because I need money. But at the same time, I wish to abolish the concept of money altogether. Capitalism will inevitably be developed into fascism.


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23 Nov 2010, 4:43 pm

Kenjuudo wrote:
Asp-Z wrote:
Everyone wants it for different reasons and thinks of it differently. But everyone (in most cultures) still wants it.
I disagree again. Partly this time. Because I want money because I need money. But at the same time, I wish to abolish the concept of money altogether. Capitalism will inevitably be developed into fascism.


You don't strictly need money, you need what the money can buy you. You can easily steal food if you want, you'd just prefer to buy it honestly instead - therefore, you want money.

I disagree on the fascism thing, though, and I point to the fact that it's the more controlled economies (such as socialist countries) that usually end up becoming fascist.



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23 Nov 2010, 4:43 pm

Sex.


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23 Nov 2010, 4:45 pm

Moog wrote:
Sex.


That isn't an NT thing at all, most Aspies are sexual just like the majority of all mammals.



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23 Nov 2010, 4:45 pm

Moog wrote:
Sex.

:lol: well i don't...i understand masturbation but a lot of the sex parade is lost on me, i find it utterly tiring...



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23 Nov 2010, 5:18 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
Kenjuudo wrote:
Asp-Z wrote:
Everyone wants it for different reasons and thinks of it differently. But everyone (in most cultures) still wants it.
I disagree again. Partly this time. Because I want money because I need money. But at the same time, I wish to abolish the concept of money altogether. Capitalism will inevitably be developed into fascism.


You don't strictly need money, you need what the money can buy you. You can easily steal food if you want, you'd just prefer to buy it honestly instead - therefore, you want money.

I disagree on the fascism thing, though, and I point to the fact that it's the more controlled economies (such as socialist countries) that usually end up becoming fascist.
Although this is a completely different topic altogether, the transformation is subtle to the point of not being noticed by the majority of people. It has already begun with simple, innocent commercials - they basically tell you what you should need and want. Keywords are indoctrination and propaganda.


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23 Nov 2010, 5:21 pm

Kenjuudo wrote:
Asp-Z wrote:
Kenjuudo wrote:
Asp-Z wrote:
Everyone wants it for different reasons and thinks of it differently. But everyone (in most cultures) still wants it.
I disagree again. Partly this time. Because I want money because I need money. But at the same time, I wish to abolish the concept of money altogether. Capitalism will inevitably be developed into fascism.


You don't strictly need money, you need what the money can buy you. You can easily steal food if you want, you'd just prefer to buy it honestly instead - therefore, you want money.

I disagree on the fascism thing, though, and I point to the fact that it's the more controlled economies (such as socialist countries) that usually end up becoming fascist.
Although this is a completely different topic altogether, the transformation is subtle to the point of not being noticed by the majority of people. It has already begun with simple, innocent commercials - they basically tell you what you should need and want. Keywords are indoctrination and propaganda.


Private corporations can't create fascism, only the government can do that. A free market is the complete opposite of fascism. Socialism, on the other hand, is the government controlling the economy - obvious fascism right there.

You could easily argue that Britain's economy is turning socialist right now since the government controls over half of it, in fact, but that's going completely off topic.



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23 Nov 2010, 5:28 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
Private corporations can't create fascism, only the government can do that.
I view this assumption as a misconception. The government is just people, and people are bought/paid by private corporations to protect their interests in one way or another.


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23 Nov 2010, 5:29 pm

Asp-Z wrote:

Private corporations can't create fascism, only the government can do that. A free market is the complete opposite of fascism. Socialism, on the other hand, is the government controlling the economy - obvious fascism right there.

You could easily argue that Britain's economy is turning socialist right now since the government controls over half of it, in fact, but that's going completely off topic.


You need to be careful with your definitions. Fascism, socialism and other such terms have generally accepted meanings in legitimate discourse and it is common to subvert those meanings to support a point of view.

FWIW, corporations CAN create fascism if in deciding that a fascist regime is in there best interest, they support polices that bring such a regime into power.

Corporations are not automatically supporters of free markets. They are fundamentally entities driven solely by self interest. If a free market undermines their profitability then they will resist it.

Also, free markets are an ideal that have never actually existed.



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23 Nov 2010, 5:31 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
Asp-Z wrote:

Private corporations can't create fascism, only the government can do that. A free market is the complete opposite of fascism. Socialism, on the other hand, is the government controlling the economy - obvious fascism right there.

You could easily argue that Britain's economy is turning socialist right now since the government controls over half of it, in fact, but that's going completely off topic.


You need to be careful with your definitions. Fascism, socialism and other such terms have generally accepted meanings in legitimate discourse and it is common to subvert those meanings to support a point of view.

FWIW, corporations CAN create fascism if in deciding that a fascist regime is in there best interest, they support polices that bring such a regime into power.

Corporations are not automatically supporters of free markets. They are fundamentally entities driven solely by self interest. If a free market undermines their profitability then they will resist it.

Also, free markets are an ideal that have never actually existed.


Corporations can lobby for fascism if they influence the government, but it's still the government that's creating it.

You are right about free markets being an ideal, though. There is indeed no such thing as a completely free market.



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23 Nov 2010, 5:36 pm

Fascism is inevitable the way things are going these days.


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wavefreak58
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23 Nov 2010, 5:38 pm

Asp-Z wrote:

Corporations can lobby for fascism if they influence the government, but it's still the government that's creating it.


I don't see any way of separating corporations from the culture in which they operate. There is no single chain of cause and effect that traces the evolution of a government from an open society to full fledged fascism. It is more a web of interactions between multiple interests including corporations, government entities, the media and the apathy of individuals.

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You are right about free markets being an ideal, though. There is indeed no such thing as a completely free market.


Effective markets require an element of freedom. The argument becomes how much freedom is best and how are rogue elements controlled.