Board index › General Discussion › General Autism Discussion

Is it too easy to let the condition define you?

Page 2 of 2 [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Previous topic | Next topic

leejosepho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock

17 Jan 2011, 7:42 am

murphycop wrote:
I think some people could be held back from achieving what they want to, cause they know they've got aspergers or whatever to fall back on.

The first Aspie I ever met was like that. She had accepted whatever she had been told, and that had ultimately resulted in her thereby excusing herself from even trying to step outside that particular mold.


_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================


Cornflake
Administrator
Administrator

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 73,331
Location: Over there

17 Jan 2011, 9:37 am

wavefreak58 wrote:
The best hope is to be around people that are slow to pass judgment. And I;m not sure which is worse, those that condemn or those that condescend.

:lol: True, very true...


_________________
Giraffe: a ruminant with a view.


murphycop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2011
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,134

17 Jan 2011, 10:04 am

raisedbyignorance wrote:
murphycop wrote:
I think some people could be held back from achieving what they want to, cause they know they've got aspergers or whatever to fall back on. It seems a lot of people mention they have it, wherever they go. From what I see, like dating sites or social one. I wouldn't mention it in places like that, and don't feel the need to. Maybe i've been guilty of using it when I shouldn't have. I dunno though, I guess its a fine line?


For a while I did, thinking it would make a difference in the way people treated me. I got no results from it and now I just don't care. People continue to hate me either which way.


I'm sure people don't hate you. Try not to think that way, if they don't like or understand you, thats their problem.


_________________
'Ave we had a national f**king stroke!??


murphycop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2011
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,134

17 Jan 2011, 10:06 am

leejosepho wrote:
murphycop wrote:
I think some people could be held back from achieving what they want to, cause they know they've got aspergers or whatever to fall back on.

The first Aspie I ever met was like that. She had accepted whatever she had been told, and that had ultimately resulted in her thereby excusing herself from even trying to step outside that particular mold.


Thats a dangerous way to be


_________________
'Ave we had a national f**king stroke!??


leejosepho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock

17 Jan 2011, 10:26 am

murphycop wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
murphycop wrote:
I think some people could be held back from achieving what they want to, cause they know they've got aspergers or whatever to fall back on.

The first Aspie I ever met was like that. She had accepted whatever she had been told, and that had ultimately resulted in her thereby excusing herself from even trying to step outside that particular mold.

Thats a dangerous way to be

Agreed, and yet that was her personal "security blanket" ... and now who among us can rightly judge her wrong because of that? She had achieved what she had wanted -- security -- at a cost some of us might not be willing to pay ... and maybe because it is actually *not* easy to let a condition define us?

Now sitting here at the end of a long path that has worn me out, I can get lost in thought about all of that.


_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================


murphycop
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Jan 2011
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,134

17 Jan 2011, 12:58 pm

Well I guess if its security she wanted, she did ok. We have to find it in our own ways.


_________________
'Ave we had a national f**king stroke!??


Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

17 Jan 2011, 1:06 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
Agreed. It is difficult enough to know when it is some basic limitation in myself and not me "being lazy". It is nearly impossible to find an acceptable balance that meets other's standards. The best hope is to be around people that are slow to pass judgment. And I;m not sure which is worse, those that condemn or those that condescend.


Yeah, that's a hard one. I try not to deal with either, but it seems like the latter is harder to get away from.



Ahaseurus2000
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,546
Location: auckland

17 Jan 2011, 8:53 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
Using intrinsic traits to excuse behaviors is a human thing not an aspie one. People justify their behaviors all the time. It a constant struggle to find the right balance between excuses and real limitations.


As Robert Pirsig stated, Morality is a form of Quality. In which case, is "Using intrinsic traits to excuse behaviors" moral? Is it the act of highest quality compared to the other options?

Identity is informed by memory, learning, perception, and more. Learning you have AS, and your perception of AS, is a part of that informing. Learning to grow beyond AS, and changing your perception of AS, is also part of that informing process.

Verdandi wrote:
Another human thing is to assume that people who use intrinsic traits to explain their behavior and actions are looking for an excuse.

I've observed that people who have an acute illness (say, the flu) can get away with more behavioral explanations on the basis of having the flu than someone with a chronic, lifelong condition can, even if the latter is more severe.

I do not think it is difficult to find the right balance between excuses and real limitations. I just think whatever balance one finds will be interrogated constantly.


This may be more with the behavioural games people play, not with identity, I think.


_________________
Life is Painful. Suffering is Optional. Keep your face to the Sun and never see your Shadow.


Last edited by Ahaseurus2000 on 17 Jan 2011, 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

17 Jan 2011, 9:03 pm

Ahaseurus2000 wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
Using intrinsic traits to excuse behaviors is a human thing not an aspie one. People justify their behaviors all the time. It a constant struggle to find the right balance between excuses and real limitations.


As Robert Pirsig stated, Morality is a form of Quality. In which case, is "Using intrinsic traits to excuse behaviors" moral? Is it the act of highest quality compared to the other options?


Is it moral to judge this as "excusing behaviors" rather than explaining them? Doesn't that already bias the discussion?

If I tell the people I live with that I need external prompts to get some things done when they should be done, am I making excuses for the fact that I am terrible at initiating action or am I asking them to help me initiate action?



Last edited by Verdandi on 17 Jan 2011, 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ahaseurus2000
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,546
Location: auckland

17 Jan 2011, 9:22 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Ahaseurus2000 wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
Using intrinsic traits to excuse behaviors is a human thing not an aspie one. People justify their behaviors all the time. It a constant struggle to find the right balance between excuses and real limitations.


As Robert Pirsig stated, Morality is a form of Quality. In which case, is "Using intrinsic traits to excuse behaviors" moral? Is it the act of highest quality compared to the other options?


Is it moral to judge this as "excusing behaviors" rather than explaining them? Doesn't that already biasing the discussion?

If I tell the people I live with that I need external prompts to get some things done when they should be done, am I making excuses for the fact that I am terrible at initiating action or am I asking them to help me initiate action?


Ah, I think I misunderstood "intrinsic traits". Yes, I think some behaviours are excusable, like the example you provided, and can even be the act of better quality.

I think it depends on the personal circumstances and limits of each individual, but it needs careful scrutiny, and correct definition of "intrinsic traits".

What things would "intrinsic traits" cover?


_________________
Life is Painful. Suffering is Optional. Keep your face to the Sun and never see your Shadow.


Verdandi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Age: 56
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,275
Location: University of California Sunnydale (fictional location - Real location Olympia, WA)

17 Jan 2011, 10:02 pm

Ahaseurus2000 wrote:
Ah, I think I misunderstood "intrinsic traits". Yes, I think some behaviours are excusable, like the example you provided, and can even be the act of better quality.

I think it depends on the personal circumstances and limits of each individual, but it needs careful scrutiny, and correct definition of "intrinsic traits".

What things would "intrinsic traits" cover?


I assume personality traits, disabilities, talents, skills - things you can do, things you cannot do, things you cannot do easily, things you can do easily, reactions that you can or cannot easily control, that sort of thing?

Like I can't control my sense of time - I don't really have one - but it is my responsibility to set alarms and keep an eye on the time when it's important so I am not late for something. It can still cause me to be late - and while it is correct, I suspect people would see it as an excuse (or not even understand what I'm saying, because "everyone loses track of the time occasionally")

It can be a really fine line, I guess. In my case, I am inclined to not judge people as making excuses because I know from personal experience that my attempts to explain myself tend to go badly. That is, if someone has a disability, I am more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt.