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Apple_in_my_Eye
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08 Feb 2011, 5:22 pm

Poke wrote:
...an "extreme variant" of the male brain, exactly which characteristics of the "male brain" are in question?


The characteristics are what Baron-Cohen calls "systematizing" and "empathizing." They mean pretty much what they sound like they mean. Women tend to be high empathizers, men are high systematizers, and autistics are even higher systematizers and lower empathizers (or so goes the idea).

I'm not a fan of the theory.

The Wikipedia page about the E-S scale is pretty good, and has some criticisms of the idea.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathizing–systemizing_theory?wasRedirected=true



Avengilante
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08 Feb 2011, 5:43 pm

If my autistic brain is extra-male, how come I detest competitive sports of any kind and have all the mechanical savvy of a fish?

I don't think I have any particularly effeminate qualities, but the things typically associated with 'maleness' are mostly things that strike me as brutish and uncouth.


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Fudo
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08 Feb 2011, 6:01 pm

there have been scientific tests to differentiate between male and female brain function, men in general have more 'logical' functioning, like map reading for example. women in general have more 'verbal' functioning, naturally more adept with language etc.
no links i'm afraid but these studies were mentioned on the BBC television series 'QI', normally very thorough in their research.
iirc, it's something to do with more grey matter in the brain for one, white matter for the other.. or perhaps different genders using more of one than the other. surely there are exceptions but i believe this is a demonstrable difference between male and female brain function, generally speaking.
fudo



jamesongerbil
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08 Feb 2011, 6:14 pm

Yeah, I've been to the BBC brain site. It was pretty interesting. I can def. attest to the fact that i'm female and an extreme systemizer. However, physical evidence would suggest I have normal levels of testosterone, from what they said. Length proportions of the fingers and whatnot.



Verdandi
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08 Feb 2011, 6:20 pm

Fudo wrote:
there have been scientific tests to differentiate between male and female brain function, men in general have more 'logical' functioning, like map reading for example. women in general have more 'verbal' functioning, naturally more adept with language etc.
no links i'm afraid but these studies were mentioned on the BBC television series 'QI', normally very thorough in their research.
iirc, it's something to do with more grey matter in the brain for one, white matter for the other.. or perhaps different genders using more of one than the other. surely there are exceptions but i believe this is a demonstrable difference between male and female brain function, generally speaking.
fudo


There are different interpretations of the data:

http://www.rainydaybooks.com/book/9780393068382



Fudo
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08 Feb 2011, 6:58 pm

definitely a different opinion and one i'm inclined to agree with, at least in part, but has this author seen the particular data i referred to and acknowledged it's validity i wonder?
but anyways, i have long suspected that gender is no more a boundary than race or even hair colour and that if one applies hard work and dedication over time then almost anything can be achieved.
as knowledge of autism grows perhaps more will be revealed.
fudo



2ukenkerl
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08 Feb 2011, 8:30 pm

kat_ross wrote:
i am a female with AS and when i was growing up, i always sort of wondered if i might have elevated testosterone. well, last year i had blood work done for the first time, and it turns out that my body does actually produce too much testosterone, and i am now taking medication to lower it. i just always knew somehow.


Is your avatar actually a picture of you, as you naturally are? If so, there is NO way you historically had testosterone anywhere NEAR a male's level. And OLDER women, older here COULD mean as young as their late 20s, are MORE likely to have things like PCOS and low estrogen which will drive their testosterone up. STILL, their total testosterone will only maybe just approach a male's free testosterone.

And males don't necessarily think literally. Females tend to think in a more leading and nuanced way, at least when dealing with males.



2ukenkerl
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08 Feb 2011, 8:38 pm

Avengilante wrote:
If my autistic brain is extra-male, how come I detest competitive sports of any kind and have all the mechanical savvy of a fish?

I don't think I have any particularly effeminate qualities, but the things typically associated with 'maleness' are mostly things that strike me as brutish and uncouth.


Well, I am a straight male and I'm sure I come off as straight. I don't like ball sports. I am not brutish or uncouth.

But I don't speak like a female, and AM very savvy mechanically and electronically.



CockneyRebel
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08 Feb 2011, 9:01 pm

I'm not like the majority of the women that see around my city, or that I know. I'm not into hair, todays guys and makeup. I would not be caught dead wearing 90% of the clothes that are made for women, these days. I took the BBC ID test and I've scored as having a brain that's more male than female. I have clusters of light facial hair that I need to shave, every two days. I've looked like Mick Avory since I've stopped growing at the age of 21. My looks are natural b for the most part, but part of it is rebellion against what Canadian and American women should look like, according to my mum and society. I've had a different male role model at every different phase of my life. The proof is in the pudding according to my WP history. My rank title has been Austin Powers, Pearly Drag King, Sid The Love Rat and now Mick Avory for many years to come, as I've finally matured as an adult on WP. I don't take hormone therapy, because I'm willing to accept all that God gave me to work with.


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kat_ross
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11 Feb 2011, 9:12 pm

Yes, this is a recent picture of me. I don't have male levels of testosterone, obviously, just higher than most women. High enough that my physician suggested that I might want to do something about it.



Verdandi
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11 Feb 2011, 9:47 pm

Fudo wrote:
definitely a different opinion and one i'm inclined to agree with, at least in part, but has this author seen the particular data i referred to and acknowledged it's validity i wonder?
but anyways, i have long suspected that gender is no more a boundary than race or even hair colour and that if one applies hard work and dedication over time then almost anything can be achieved.
as knowledge of autism grows perhaps more will be revealed.
fudo


If she's telling the truth, she reviewed all the neurological data that was used to support sex-based neurological differences that she could get her hands on.



pensieve
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12 Feb 2011, 12:19 am

It's a good theory. I like the theory. Quit knocking the theory.
Maybe it's one of those 'have-in-common' things. It's common to have an extreme male brain but might not apply to all.
I think it's pretty true for me. I can tell I'm more technical and less empathetic, although I have learned it.


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MotownDangerPants
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12 Feb 2011, 12:45 am

It's linked to 2D/4D thoery, as well.

I have the long ring finger which indicates a *male* brain and increased testosterone exposure in the womb.

I don't feel like a man, though. I don't have masculine interests and I'm not great with most "manly" things. I just feel androgynous.