Total Confusion: AS/Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

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StuartN
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15 Feb 2011, 1:43 pm

I had CBT with several therapists before I was diagnosed with AS and it was a horrendous experience, like a personal assault on my identity and complete lack of acceptance of my problems. All the "negative thoughts", "twisted thinking" and "self-sabotage" was extremely destructive.

I had a CBT-based course on anxiety-management after I was diagnosed, and that course (where both the therapist and I were aware of my diagnosis) was very helpful.

It sounds to me like the therapist has no understanding of your diagnosis and is incapable of providing meaningful therapy.



anbuend
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15 Feb 2011, 1:50 pm

Regarding CBT, it only works if your problem is caused by unrealistic thinking, like all or nothing thinking. It doesn't really work if that's not the issue.


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meerkateer
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15 Feb 2011, 7:45 pm

Thank you, everyone, for all the helpful advice and personal experiences. I'm definitely quitting the group. I went about 10 times and only stayed so long because the therapist seemed so smart and perceptive when dealing with everyone else's issues, while I often thought he was misunderstanding me so I often thought there was something wrong with me or I was being dumb because I couldn't understand him or get him to understand me. So a CBT group for NTs actually generated negative beliefs for me that weren't there before. Then, we worked on these negative beliefs that were generated by the group during the group. Dysfunction Junction!

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I had CBT with several therapists before I was diagnosed with AS and it was a horrendous experience, like a personal assault on my identity and complete lack of acceptance of my problems. All the "negative thoughts", "twisted thinking" and "self-sabotage" was extremely destructive.


Totally! It's like they're constantly telling you to please stop being yourself and accept that you really do think you're worthless like everyone else thinks they're worthless. And that all your thinking is woefully distorted.

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This has been my experience with almost all psychiatrists and psychologists, they think I'm playing games. It took me awhile to really get it. I usually quietly agree with them, now, and just never come back if I can sense that they are not listening to me and pegging me as someone who's just seeking attention or whatever it is that they think I'm doing.


Yeah, it seems like a lot of people here had many failed therapy experiences before being diagnosed. I only started therapy for the first time last August so I've been trusting the professionals completely when they've been telling me what my issues are. Oops.

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Additionally, I'm a very happy person, generally, even despite the fact that I have like... no friends in my program right now.


Every week, we fill out scores for Depression, Anxiety, Anger, Positive Feelings, and I always put down good numbers for all categories. When I report them to the therapist, they surprise him. Yesterday, I commented that I thought the numbers didn't reflect my true issues. They say that I am quite happy. I AM, but also totally disconnected. He burst out laughing and laughed for a full minute.

A huge stroke of luck just now. Got an appointment with my regular therapist for tomorrow. She's the one who recommended CBT, but she's always been willing to consider AS, even if she thought I didn't have it because I could look her in the eye and smile.



AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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17 Feb 2011, 12:51 am

meerkateer wrote:
. . . Everyone, including therapists, constantly assigns to me motives that I don't have. . .

Yes, that part in particular sounds like a religion.



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17 Feb 2011, 12:56 am

meerkateer wrote:
. . . I haven't made one new friend in several years of grad school. Basically, all my social interactions are unsuccessful. Everything feels extremely shallow during interactions, and I always want something deeper and more genuine. . .

Honest to gosh, I thought about grad school in philosophy. Took three classes at different times, but it's so much hierarchy and one-upsmanship. And people are so overwhelmed with reading and the papers they are writing. If they were once interested in the intellectual topics, that's like driven out. And plus, there are literally no openings in philosophy except when someone retires (slight overstatement, but not by much).

Prefer anthropology.

Also think about medical research (influenza, tuberculosis)



nemorosa
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17 Feb 2011, 6:07 am

I had a couple of sessions with a psychologist for assessment for doing CBT, after having been referred to her by my psychiatrist. I really did try to keep an open mind as I did admit to being sceptical about the whole thing before hand. My suspicions were all proven correct.

Two examples of where the psychologist was way off the mark:

The first, is that I informed her of my inability to understand the motivation or drive behind status, pecking-order and hierarchy, and that these things meant nothing to me. I had also later said that when people or rather groups of people show large displays of emotion that it disturbs me. Even an image of such a thing makes me uneasy. I related the time when I had seen a photograph from around the time the iPad was launched, this guy coming out of the store with his purchase held aloft grinning from ear to ear with a huge crowd around him whooping and cheering. That kind of thing causes a huge disconnect with me, such that I almost fear these people. It is like they have human bodies but aren't really people inside. Why else would they behave in such a strange way?

Anyway, the psychologist said something along the lines of "Aha!, Couldn't this be related to your problem with status? The iPad is a status symbol".

Where do you start when somebody is so wrong?

The second example is that I had told her I have a problem communicating my ideas, as in translating thoughts into what I feel is the verbal equivalent. Also that I sometimes have a problem listening to people, because my attention can wander and also that the words I hear can occasionally become "garbled" to me.

I was told by the psychologist that I was just being too critical of myself and other people, and that was the reason for my perceived communication difficulties. I was completely flabbergasted that she entirely missed what I was saying.

The final nail in the coffin for my prospects of commencing the CBT with her: She didn't know why the psychiatrist had referred me to her, nor tell me what the CBT course would be trying to "fix" should I choose to do it.



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17 Feb 2011, 1:42 pm

Just curious, do any of you feel like you came off as trying *shock* mental health professionals in the past? Like you were attention-seeking?

I sometimes have sort of an affect to my voice, but I know how to sound *normal* when I need to. I think I get taken a bit more seriously when I try to sound as normal as possible but it is difficult, I have to keep myself from getting distracted. When I let myself drift off into the way that's most comfortable speaking, people think i'm out for shock-value...some people just think it's funny but mental health professionals definitely don't, lol.

Its not an outrageous affect, fwiw. I don't sound like Robin Williams, I just sound sort of unusual.



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17 Feb 2011, 2:11 pm

nemorosa wrote:
Anyway, the psychologist said something along the lines of "Aha!, Couldn't this be related to your problem with status? The iPad is a status symbol".

Where do you start when somebody is so wrong?

Generally, I shut up and leave. I've had something similar happen, it was, well lets just say when someone who's supposed to be making you feel better strongly implies that you being attacked and having your life threatened for extended period of time only happened because you aren't pretty and just feel bad about not feeling pretty like the pretty girls... what mental health care professionals call trust issues I call sound judgment based firmly on past experience with them. You can't fix stupid, you can just move on and hope for not stupid next time.



meerkateer
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17 Feb 2011, 6:49 pm

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The first, is that I informed her of my inability to understand the motivation or drive behind status, pecking-order and hierarchy, and that these things meant nothing to me.


Exactly. These things mean nothing to me either. Yesterday, I was telling my therapist that my favorite conversational thing was to go back and forth with someone on the weirdest topic and try to create a crazy complex reality out of what's coming out of our mouths. And her response was, "Oh, that's one-upmanship. You're competing with each other to say the oddest thing. It's like a challenge." I'm like, "No, it's like playing and imagining." I asked her why most people think it's a challenge, and she said, "It's because you have an academic background and went to prestigious universities, so people assume you are competing with them." Face-palm.

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Anyway, the psychologist said something along the lines of "Aha!, Couldn't this be related to your problem with status? The iPad is a status symbol".


Then, you have to explain that you receive zero value out of status objects. Then, they will say that must be due to some underlying negative belief that (???) or a defense mechanism against (???).

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Also that I sometimes have a problem listening to people, because my attention can wander and also that the words I hear can occasionally become "garbled" to me.


Oh yeah, is that the whole trouble with "auditory processing" thing? I've always had it, and always assumed that I was dumb in front of people. I called it "Homer Simpson Syndrome", like I'm Homer Simpson and there's monkeys with tambourines in my brain when someone is talking to me. I don't know if this is illegal, but I really want to audio-record all my work-related conversations for later playback and translation from verbal gobbledegook into beautiful diagrams that I can understand and act upon.

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I was told by the psychologist that I was just being too critical of myself and other people, and that was the reason for my perceived communication difficulties.


This kind of thing induces RAGE. My therapist said I had a self-confidence problem and that was why I sucked at social interactions. I don't know how this jives with my good teaching/public speaking skills.

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Just curious, do any of you feel like you came off as trying *shock* mental health professionals in the past? Like you were attention-seeking?


I felt that way a lot. Not due to my voice, but what I was saying, which was the truth. Then, they'll try to fit you into their (???) rubric. Like they think you're making it all up to seek attention. I said that I often do tasks in one sitting for 12 hours at a time with no food or drink or bathroom. The therapist said this was normal.



AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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17 Feb 2011, 11:55 pm

meerkateer wrote:
. . . These things mean nothing to me either. Yesterday, I was telling my therapist that my favorite conversational thing was to go back and forth with someone on the weirdest topic and try to create a crazy complex reality out of what's coming out of our mouths. . .

I do that, too! I love way out topics and intellectual flights of fancy. I could say it makes me a better writer and a better scholar, but really, it's just a whole lot of fun! :D



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18 Feb 2011, 1:27 am

Greetings meerkateer.
I had to laugh out loud when I read your original post. I could have written it myself, the themes were so familiar.

re: CBT... I spent a year doing weekly sessions with an experienced CBT therapist. I began this process because my partner was depressed and I needed to cope with that, and the recommended course was to resolve my own "issues".

I found that:

1. CBT led me into confusion but not out of it.
2. I could understand the processes of CBT but not perform them.
3. The therapist eventually announced that she could not interpret my facial expressions.
4. She suggested ASD, which I had never heard of.
5. It became clear that she did not know how to counsel me.
6. I quit and felt a lot better!



Ahaseurus2000
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18 Feb 2011, 3:02 am

Check out "CBT for Dummies".


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AardvarkGoodSwimmer
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21 Feb 2011, 6:12 pm

manBrain wrote:
. . . 3. The therapist eventually announced that she could not interpret my facial expressions. . .

Maybe because she's trying to left-brain the social skills in a clunky, clumsy manner. Instead of just accepting that, by their very nature, these are inexact, right-brain skills.

Boy, I mean, I have done this many, many times. A number of things have helped me add to repertoire--sales, political activism, the novels of Irwin Shaw, playing poker in Las Vegas (broke even, recommend for social skills, emphatically not as an attempt to make money). In poker, just generally stay open to what is right there in front of you. Whether a player generally likes his or her hand or generally does like, and sometimes you pick up a read and sometimes you do not. In real like, the advantage is when you 'build a pot' in a positive way, everybody wins!