NTs and Conforming?

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Conformism usually comes naturally to NTs. But I find the NTs that give up their life just to conform really get on my nerves.

NTs need to know that we are all going to be dead one day, so what is all this worrying about competing in aid of, at the end of the day?

Last edited by Joe90 on 03 Aug 2011, 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ironically for many people the very act of being a non-conformist is a prelude to joining a group of like-minded people doing exactly the same thing.

My brother thinks by wearing odd socks constantly he is individual, I don't really have the heart to tell him that he is just like everyone else.

A true non-conformist doesn't give a damn about what other people think and does his own thing regardless, sometimes I wish I could do that...maybe I have adapted too well?

"He who refuses to follow is doomed to lead."

I have noticed the same thing. I never really understood the goth culture, since it was simply conforming to something else (and slightly illogically, too). I wish I could say I just really do what I want to do as far as looks go, and I do do so in general, but even I have a suit for formal occasions and job interviews.

Game theory can actually help a bit here. When people meet each other for the first time, they are uncertain what kind of person the other person is. Can I trust him? Would he make a good employee? So, the entire point of conforming here is to send a signal: "Look, I'm just like you. You can trust me." Thus, conforming helps the other person in confirming that you're a person he likes. It's all about signals and stereotypes, which is kind of annoying.

Conforming gets you jobs.
Conforming gets you money.
Conforming gets you sex.
Conforming gets you understanding from others.
Conforming gets you help when times are hard.
Conforming gets you safety from people who dislike anyone different.
Conforming gets you safety - whatever you do has been tried and tested.
Conforming gets you lower prices for everything (through mass production)
About the only thing conforming does not give you is knowledge of alternatives. But we did not evolve to think, we evolved to survive. Before the information age, conforming was a far more successful strategy than thinking. For most people.

I have a sister-in-law who desperately - pathologically - needs my AS daughter to 'fit in'. She needs to wear the same clothes as all the other kids, carry the right book bag, etc... She is constantly trying to 'correct' my daughter to teach her to not stim so other kids don't pick her out of the crowd and bully her for being different.

I, on the other hand, am a diehard individualist. My strategy is to simply bulletproof my daughters self esteem so bullying, etc isn't as much of an issue. Despite my daughters obvious differences from her peers, she is a great, outgoing kid. She is smart and fun and engaging and she has such a strong sense of fair play that she is a sort of bridge that shyer kids have come to rely on in navigating their school day. I want her to be the person she wants to be and a bit of hand flapping and bouncing on her toes means nothing in the greater scheme of things.

Conformity, at its core, makes you invisible. You never get singled out for good or bad. That is my SIL's goal. I also believe that is her dysfunction and I have no intention of letting her pass her psychosis on to my daughter.

I can try to shed my opinion on this being an NT and all. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact it is just easier to conform and copy others then to do things on our own. Also because so much is second nature to us, we may not even realize it. We just go after what we relate to without even thinking about it.

Which that brings up even more reason why we are like this. It doesn't even cross our minds that we are doing it. I think if we would think about it more rather then just jumping in we prob would not conform as much. If you notice us NTs like to jump to conclusions about things really fast rather than thinking about it and studying it.

Not all NTs are like that though, but a majority are. I actually relate to you guys a lot more because I was bullied a lot growing up. I had really bad buck teeth and there was a chip between them. It made me shy and depressed, and I did feel like a mutant just wanting to hide my face. I still to this day don't understand why people could be so judgmental on appearance alone. Specially since it was something that could be fixed.

In a way I kinda am glad I went through that because it has made me a better person and I dont just rush into things because I know how it can effect others, If it wasn't for that I would be conforming just like the rest of us. I think some just like the easy life and conforming is definitely the way to go. I mean think about it? No one can argue or disagree with you because everyone that conforms is headed in the same direction in one way or another. So yeah its less stressful and just easier.

Personally I think I would get so bored with it after a while. Hopefully that makes sense and all.

FaithWalker

Social psychologists have done a great deal of research into conforming.

They've identified two distinct types of social influence - normative and informational.

Informational is when you conform because you don't know what to do, and you assume the guy next to you does. The classic study into this made use of the autokinetic effect - if you stick a person in a totally dark room with a single unmoving point of light, they'll get the illusion of the light moving. If you stick five people in the room together and ask them to report verbally on the light's movement, over time their answers will become similar. And if you take them out and test them alone after that, they'll still give all the same answers, because they honestly believe what they're saying.

Normative is when you conform even though you know the answer is wrong. The classic study here involved an incredibly easy test of judging line length, where several confederates gave the exact same wrong answer. Most people conform (ie give the same wrong answer) on 30% of trials - but test them alone afterwards and they get 100% right. They don't want to be judged negatively, or singled out for bad treatment. There's safety in numbers, after all. You may be doing something stupid, but if 5 other people are doing the exact same thing, they can't pick you out for mockery. And many studies have shown that people tend to form negative opinions of dissenters.

Incidentally, the only study I saw into conformity in AS/HFA was a replica of the normative social influence study I described. They found that about 50% of the sample conformed on all or almost all trials, and 50% on none or very few. Which is totally different from the NT pattern of responding. They figured it might be perseveration. My theory is that it had to do with the fact that their sample included both PIQ>VIQ and VIQ>PIQ participants - the VIQ>PIQ participants, knowing they suck at visuospatial tasks, may be less confident about getting the right answer on that test. In other words, for a subset of the participants, it may have actually been informational social influence instead of normative.

I think the key here is all about safety in numbers. People are stupid. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

You've got a point there. Now I actually understand the reason behind conforming. Thanks.