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universeofone
Snowy Owl
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04 Mar 2011, 6:13 pm

To OP, I can see how having gone through a similar plight would make it easier, and feel more genuine about trying, to express empathy to another than if they were dealing with something completely foreign to you.

For me, there is something missing between the various thoughts of what I could say or do to help someone who is suffering, and the part of me that decides to act. It's like reaching for the next item in a sequence, and always coming up empty. I do well with compassion, but empathy throws me every time. It can make me feel monstrous, though I know it isn't true.


Joe



OJani
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05 Mar 2011, 3:22 am

starygrrl wrote:
Bethie wrote:
For me, it's not related to whether I've personally experienced someone's troubles before, but whether I can rationally empathize with being upset over it.

For instance,
I was accused of being "uncaring and cold" because I was unable to find anything to say to my mother when her mother (my grandmother) died, and she was just devastated. To me...it's just someone she loved is no longer conscious. She didn't suffer...she had lived a long life...I couldn't express empathy because I couldn't rationally comprehend why she would experience those types of feelings. In all honesty, it won't be different when my mom dies...I'll be glad of all she's given me, and the times we spent together, and a bit sad that there won't be any more. But as long as there's no suffering, it won't be a great tragedy.

Contrast that with my reaction to when my bf would come home from work with red/numb hands from the cold, and I'd cry because his hands hurt him, and wish it was me instead.


I get this to. I think it is the fact our emotional processing is fundimentally atypical. I never got people who cried at weddings, or why people even went to funerals. I can go on.


We really work much alike soul wise. But how do you explain I shed tears over my sister's dog's death? He lived long. My family showed great empathy for him. I felt his last heart-beats with my hand. That was upsetting.



DGuru
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06 Mar 2011, 1:24 am

Bethie wrote:
For me, it's not related to whether I've personally experienced someone's troubles before, but whether I can rationally empathize with being upset over it.

For instance,
I was accused of being "uncaring and cold" because I was unable to find anything to say to my mother when her mother (my grandmother) died, and she was just devastated. To me...it's just someone she loved is no longer conscious. She didn't suffer...she had lived a long life...I couldn't express empathy because I couldn't rationally comprehend why she would experience those types of feelings. In all honesty, it won't be different when my mom dies...I'll be glad of all she's given me, and the times we spent together, and a bit sad that there won't be any more. But as long as there's no suffering, it won't be a great tragedy.

Contrast that with my reaction to when my bf would come home from work with red/numb hands from the cold, and I'd cry because his hands hurt him, and wish it was me instead.


Her being her mother chances are she will be sad at her death by both statistical probability(most people are disturbed when people die), and because I've thought about why death is sad. Common belief is "the suffering the person endured" makes it sad. That might be a small reason why people become sad at death, but it's not everything. A person you're used to interacting with and sharing things with being their for you is gone and will never interact with you again. It's a frightening reality, and also a reminder that that is in store for you and everyone you know and care about thanks to human mortality. This is why they invented religion. People needed a pleasant myth so they could believe they would reunite with the deceased. I can attribute my awareness of these things to thinking about religion, and about political science(at the bottom of it "fear of death" is the most commonly used motivation to get public support for a candidate or policy).

I've thought about what a society without "death" would be like and realized that if that one thing was gone we'd all be better off. Without death there can not be war, there will not be oppression of civil liberties when governments can't hull out the boogeyman of death. Since governments couldn't scare their citizens any more they would actually have to tend to their needs to keep their support, which would be a lot more simplified, all they'd have to do is oversee keeping the "anti-death system" afloat so nobody dies. That may be the one exception where governments might be able to scare people. Any organizations that are against the new technology would be very scary. But how scared people could get would depend on how easily compromised the "anti-death system" would be and how much the government and media are able to stretch the truth of how easily compromised it is.

No death means no hurry to "beat" people at skills and tasks, no hurry to do the things you want to do. You can just move at what ever pace you want and be assured of eventually doing everything you want. I can almost guarantee that if it wasn't for death looming over me(and I say this even as I am at a very young age) I would not have ever had any emotional problems. I could look at other people's lives and think "I'll get there eventually".

This is theoretically possible with nanotechnology if you could program the nanobots to oversee the body's functions and replace defective or absent cells and tissue. I hope it comes in my life time.



OJani
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06 Mar 2011, 3:40 am

off
DGuru,
I suggest you read Stanislaw Lem, begining with Cyberiad, if you are interesed in socio-philosophical sci-fi.
Look for "Stories involving the search for happiness and ideal society" here on Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cyberiad
How could an inmortal society be motivated in any way?
on



Jacs
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06 Mar 2011, 11:05 am

Jayo wrote:
I believe I may have figured out how empathy can be better elicited for those of us with AS, so that we don't appear as aloof or weird or "selfish" as people portray us to be.

For NT's, I find that the ability to be empathetic with others is greatly facilitated by the NT ability to be more imaginative and more "big picture" oriented. For them, showing empathy towards another person in social situations is unconditional, short of thinking the other person is a complete a****le. For AS people like myself, empathy is more conditional depending on having experienced something similar in the past, for which imagination is not required. If someone recounts to me a sad story that I might have dealt with before, for example they forgot a coat in a restaurant and lost it, they got let go from a job under false pretences, they got sick with the flu during an important event, I can easily empathise with them by drawing something out of my experience arsenal. In fact, the AS capacity for long-term memory is an advantage here.

Just some simple banter like "oh, yeah, I know that really sucks, I've been there, I'm sorry you had to deal with that." and I actually feel for them. It totally makes me come across as NT even though I am Aspie.

It's emphathizing with unfamiliar situations that can stymie me, though. An Aspie may tend to have lots of these, by my reckoning, because due to relative lack of social exposure in their lives, their "bad experience arsenal" may be narrower than that of an average NT. That's where you have to search your memory for the closest matching situation, as I don't advocate simply building up your arsenal of bad experience in some masochistic desire to appease NT's :)

and, hey, my methodology & theory may well prove true based on the dynamics of this discussion group alone - after all, we all emphathize with each other from our struggles in life having AS.


That's exactly how I feel. You are not alone.


_________________
Dylexia, Dyspraxia, Anxiety, Depression and possible Aspergers ... that is all.


DGuru
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30 Nov 2011, 8:53 am

OJani wrote:
off
DGuru,
I suggest you read Stanislaw Lem, begining with Cyberiad, if you are interesed in socio-philosophical sci-fi.
Look for "Stories involving the search for happiness and ideal society" here on Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cyberiad
How could an inmortal society be motivated in any way?
on


Because it's unnatural to want to do absolutely nothing.

An immortal society would be everyone acting without purpose, but since we'd be immortal that wouldn't cause any problems. It would be freedom, just doing what you want to do and answering to nobody.