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eudaimonia
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10 Mar 2011, 6:02 pm

Cornflake wrote:
kinftw wrote:
it's also illegal for an employer to not hire you because of Asperger's.
Exactly.


Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and taking a former potential employer (someone who rejected your application for employment) to court seems tome to be more costly to an person who is not employed than it would be worthwhile to keep seeking a job and/or get assistance from job seekers programs.

As for the kids being nabbed from their parents in England, let's be glad it's only three.. that leaves you with pretty good odds of not being forcibly separated from your children.


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pgd
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10 Mar 2011, 6:09 pm

stargazing wrote:
I finally got around to taking the standardized test for adult AS, and I will be discussing the results with my therapist tomorrow. I have not been officially diagnosed yet, but she does think I have a very high-functioning, mild version of Asperger's. There are more than enough telltale signs of it, particularly in my childhood. I have been thinking a lot lately about the potential advantages and/or disadvantages of being diagnosed and having it on my record, and I'm hoping you all can give me a clear picture of how it works.

I am told that there may be help available in the form of things such as disability, career services, and other potentially valuable opportunities. However, I want to know concretely about any possible drawbacks before I have anything irreversibly put in my medical records. Being diagnosed with anything is undeniably a just cause of serious concern these days. It is scary to think of the potential for a diagnosis to throw a monkey wrench into things like insurance matters, potential jobs, any situation where medical records can or must be acquired, remaining discrete for personal reasons, and I don't know what else.

Any information you can offer me about what an official diagnosis can do for me and any possible dangers would be greatly appreciated!


---

Can a diagnosis of Asperger's hold you back? In my view, yes. In the United States, an Asperger's diagnosis often opens up the worm can known as the DSM. The average employer in the United States knows nothing at all about Asperger's, autism, the ADHDs, or the many subtle epilepsies such as petit/absence/TLE/complex partial, etc. If you can do a good job at your job for an employer, that's all the employer really wants. Personally I do not subscribe to the idea of telling everyone about a diagnosis of Asperger's at all because it is often used as an excuse for rejection. At the same time, customers have a right to a correct diagnosis since a correct diagnosis explains to the customer what is going on; it is no one else's business. There are a few persons who can escape the stigma label of autism (such as Temple Grandin) but they are the exceptions. The Andromeda Strain (movie - 1969) goes into the idea of a hidden neurological challenge (subplot involving a woman scientist).



stargazing
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10 Mar 2011, 6:19 pm

Thank you for the responses so far. I should mention that I am in the US. I have no plans to ever be involved in the military, or to ever be a parent, so I guess that's good...

I'm high functioning enough that I'm quite sure absolutely nobody I know would suspect I might be "different" in that way, or have a psychiatric condition of any kind, despite my quirks (unless they knew me as a child). I could totally see myself trying to qualify for some kind of entitlement only to have people think "this is just a normal guy with no real disability, trying to be a freeloader". My social skills are not even poor enough in any way that I think could be demonstrated to be disabling (unless I try to fake it, and I'm not a good actor :wink:). Like practically everything else in my life, this may very well be yet another place where I fall cleanly through the cracks.

As for trouble getting jobs, I don't know how this sort of thing works legally, but I am quite doubtful that anyone can be forced to hire someone based on something like this. I could see it being a serious problem for some types of work, namely the exact sort of thing I'm aiming for as a profession. For example, do you think that someone would have any chance of being hired as a teacher (a job demanding very strong interpersonal skills) if anyone knew the candidate had a condition known for impairing interpersonal skills? However, I don't know what the likelihood would be that anyone in the hiring process for most jobs could potentially find out about a diagnosis. My ultimate professional goal is to be a choral conductor and teach choirs at the college level, which is more fiercely competitive right now than you could ever fathom.

I just want to make sure I have a crystal clear understanding of the positive and negative consequences before I have something put on my record that can't be removed.



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10 Mar 2011, 6:27 pm

poppyfields wrote:
most people don't reveal that in an interview, they just come off as awkward.
But that's the case for many people in an interview, AS or not.


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10 Mar 2011, 6:35 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
I remember reading aq news story that took place in the UK a few years ago about a family who decided that their daughter who has AS should have her baby taken away, because they thought that she would be too unstable to take care of it.
I doubt that's something any family would be allowed to get away with in the UK, legally, whether AS is involved or not.
Children are not property to be passed around as (misguided) parents see fit, and the law recognises this.

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I can't imagine not being able to adopt a child, due to a minor label on a piece of paper.
The flip-side is that a couple who recently decided that because of their religious beliefs, they wouldn't accept a foster child who might be homosexual, were told in no uncertain terms that this attitude is completely unacceptable.


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10 Mar 2011, 6:38 pm

eudaimonia wrote:
As for the kids being nabbed from their parents in England, let's be glad it's only three.
I strongly suspect it's not even that.
Newspapers tend to publish crap. It sells.


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Zen
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10 Mar 2011, 6:48 pm

Cornflake wrote:
eudaimonia wrote:
As for the kids being nabbed from their parents in England, let's be glad it's only three.
I strongly suspect it's not even that.
Newspapers tend to publish crap. It sells.

I suspect the same.
I know in the US, it's difficult to take kids away from their parents even in situations that are known to be abusive, from what I've seen.



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10 Mar 2011, 6:49 pm

stargazing wrote:
As for trouble getting jobs, I don't know how this sort of thing works legally, but I am quite doubtful that anyone can be forced to hire someone based on something like this.
Not forced to hire; just disallowed from using AS exclusively as a reason to not hire. Same as if they were black, Irish, Jewish etc etc.
The applicant should be judged on their relevant qualifications/abilities alone.

Quote:
However, I don't know what the likelihood would be that anyone in the hiring process for most jobs could potentially find out about a diagnosis.
In the UK, that would only be because the person looking for a job told their prospective employer about it. Medical records are confidential; employers have no rights of access.


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11 Mar 2011, 2:07 am

kinftw wrote:
This is the first i've heard of most of these things. I have AS friends in the military, it's also illegal for an employer to not hire you because of Asperger's.


As far as I know the ban with the military was only put into effect recently.

Also, while it's illegal for an employer to refuse to hire you for having AS it doesn't stop them, they'll just come up with some other excuse. employers discriminate against people all the time, ever notice that there isn't any ugly or fat people working at Hollister, Abercrombie & Finch, Urban Outfitters etc? or men waiting tables at Hooters? or someone in a wheelchair stocking groceries?
They get away with it by saying you don't fit company guidelines, but no matter how you slice it, it's discrimination.


And while I'm on the topic, have you noticed that more and more places now days use online applications? they usually have very long personality surveys in them which seem to be to be biased against people with AS or other mental disorders.... it drives me crazy, I've never managed to pass one on my own, I have to get my mom to feel them out for me. the problem is a lot of places now make you take another one at the store, which means I'm screwed.



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11 Mar 2011, 3:12 am

I've thought about lying on personality surveys but I am afraid if I lie on them, they will find out anyway after they hire me.



stargazing
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11 Mar 2011, 3:11 pm

Well, I went through the test results and everything today. I am just barely shy of the benchmark for official diagnosis as an adult. My therapist was 100% certain that I would have met the diagnostic criteria as a kid, but I have come far enough with my social skills that I just don't quite qualify anymore. So, I won't have to worry about any negative consequences of a diagnosis in my records.

Just as well, I suppose. Once again, I fall through the cracks. Just enough for it to be a blight on my life, and not enough to provide any universally accepted excuse. Spectacular. :(

I still can't help but identify at least somewhat as an aspie, as it just explains everything I've always wondered about myself far too perfectly. The majority of the telltale tendencies and internal drives of AS may be easy or even almost effortless for me to control nowadays, but they are all very noticeably and consistently present. The main difficulties I'm dealing with are unquestionably coming from the autism spectrum...



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11 Mar 2011, 4:17 pm

what do you mean by "fall through the cracks" in this case? I have been officially identified by 3 PsyD's and have NO SERVICES or anything as a result.. I also have a very good job, several homes, etc. Do I fall through the cracks too? :)

Seriously, the DX means nothing to you or me. We are just people and it sounds like you will be fine in your chosen career. And to your question RE Aspergers and teachers... Check out Vernon Smith one day.



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12 Mar 2011, 1:28 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I've thought about lying on personality surveys but I am afraid if I lie on them, they will find out anyway after they hire me.


But then they've hired you. If you're doing your job well then there's a cost associated with firing you and hiring/training someone else, so they're unlikely to bother. Revealing you've got AS/HFA while you're looking for a job or educational placement is tantamount to saying you don't want the job/placement. Lie or remain unemployable.

Adopting kids is a very difficult process even for normal people, and people are rejected for a multitude of ridiculous reasons. I once knew someone who was an actual foster parent who was rejected as an adoptive parent by the same council who were sending her foster kids. I doubt someone with AS would be allowed to adopt.

As for keeping your kids after a split, even perfectly normal decent people are forcibly separated from their kids... for being male.

And no, you will probably not get anything in the way of help. Instead you can expect that when you go to the doctors and your diagnosis flashes up on their computer screen, at least half of them will talk to you like you're a ret*d.

In short, a DX makes nothing better and an awful lot of things worse.



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12 Mar 2011, 3:18 pm

stargazing wrote:
Well, I went through the test results and everything today. I am just barely shy of the benchmark for official diagnosis as an adult. My therapist was 100% certain that I would have met the diagnostic criteria as a kid, but I have come far enough with my social skills that I just don't quite qualify anymore. So, I won't have to worry about any negative consequences of a diagnosis in my records.

Just as well, I suppose. Once again, I fall through the cracks. Just enough for it to be a blight on my life, and not enough to provide any universally accepted excuse. Spectacular. :(

I still can't help but identify at least somewhat as an aspie, as it just explains everything I've always wondered about myself far too perfectly. The majority of the telltale tendencies and internal drives of AS may be easy or even almost effortless for me to control nowadays, but they are all very noticeably and consistently present. The main difficulties I'm dealing with are unquestionably coming from the autism spectrum...


Well, stick around here. It might be helpful.


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12 Mar 2011, 4:39 pm

Thank you all so much for your advice and info. This is all new and scary stuff for me. The lack of meeting the legal standard certainly doesn't change the fact that many fundamental aspects of my life have sucked and continue to suck as a direct result of AS traits, regardless of how "well-adjusted" or "high functioning" I may be considered to be.

What really strikes me while looking into this is just how completely ignorant the entire population is about anything relating to the autism spectrum, except those who know it first hand either personally or via loved ones. As it is currently, any type of mental health condition that renders a person "different" (oh, that word) or functionally impaired is still very much synonymous with "ret*d" in the eyes of 99% of the general population. Nobody will see that change for a long time to come, an unfortunate remnant of backwardness in a time when we have suddenly come to understand countless things that have been utter mysteries throughout human history until just recently.



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12 Mar 2011, 4:57 pm

Teebst wrote:
DandelionFireworks wrote:
If you have kids and get a divorce, it'll make it harder to keep custody of your kids.


Really?!?! That's scary! Does this really happen to people with AS who are really good parents?!?!


Yes. There's a group of people who think their parents were autistic (when, autistic or not, their parents just sound like bad parents, or else the children of the purportedly autistic people sound like... gah, some of them are just horrible), who have been lobbying for autism to be considered a Bad Thing in custody proceedings, and have sometimes succeeded. Same with a very similarly negative group for spouses of autistic people. They all claim their experiences to be far more universal than they are. I am glad such things did not affect my family as I am directly descended from so many autistic people including my father.


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