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What causes Autism....

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aghogday
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02 Apr 2011, 7:23 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
What's a normal female digit ratio?


Normal is about 1.0 for women. .94 and below is significantly correlated with Autism.

Details on how to measure:

http://fingerlengthdigitratio.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/finger-length-related-to-autism-low-digit-ratio-094/



Poke
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02 Apr 2011, 7:33 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
Poke wrote:
The "cause" of autism is any brain condition that results in autistic behavior.


That's like saying the cause of daylight is sunshine.


Unfortunately, that's as specific as we can get, as there are an infinite number of ways those abnormalities can come to be.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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02 Apr 2011, 7:44 pm

Poke wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
Poke wrote:
The "cause" of autism is any brain condition that results in autistic behavior.


That's like saying the cause of daylight is sunshine.


Unfortunately, that's as specific as we can get, as there are an infinite number of ways those abnormalities can come to be.

I've thought that myself many times. It seems like there are many reasons autism manifests. It is a product of the central nervous system but could have many different causes. That is why we must think in terms of individual autism instead of generalizing.



aghogday
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02 Apr 2011, 7:56 pm

Poke wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
Poke wrote:
The "cause" of autism is any brain condition that results in autistic behavior.


That's like saying the cause of daylight is sunshine.


Unfortunately, that's as specific as we can get, as there are an infinite number of ways those abnormalities can come to be.


True, we don't know exactly what causes it. But, it could be extremely important, in finding out what influences it, to lessen the impact of the expression Autism. For instance, managing stress during pregnancy has always been seen of importance. In general, good prenatal care, is one of the best things an expectant mother can do for a healthy pregnancy and infant.

Research on maternal stress and the relationship to Autism, could be another possible motivator for some women to manage stress during pregnancy. Regardless of how strong the real relationship of Autism and pregnancy is, it is a win-win scenario to do the best to manage stress, in any case.

Some other theories show the importance of prenatal care in general to reduce the expression of Autism. Proper nutrition and vitamin intake could also be an influencing factor.

I don't think the importance of knowledge and research in this area can be underestimated.



swbluto
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02 Apr 2011, 8:02 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
It is a product of the central nervous system but could have many different causes. That is why we must think in terms of individual autism instead of generalizing.


Unique expressions doesn't imply similarly unique causes. In a sense, maybe, but the underlying "fundamental" deficits are relatively homogeneous implying a relatively uniform set of causes for the majority of cases. It's just like every snow-flake is unique, but each snow-flake is predictably caused by moisture and freezing temperatures, and physics ensures a hexagonal formation and predictable types of patterns in the shapes.



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02 Apr 2011, 8:05 pm

aghogday wrote:
.....Not all people with Autism have the digit ratio correlation, so there are obviously other factors at play. The digit ratio measurement is suggestive only in a correlation sense, just like the many online tests.....In the Cohen study the correlation of the digit ratio was much stronger in the those considered to have Lower Functioning Autism. The ratios for those with Aspergers were closer to what is found in the normal population.


Thank you for clarifying this. A couple years ago I was really into researching the digit ratio, and I was interested in the statistics. You answered something I was not able to find then.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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02 Apr 2011, 8:08 pm

swbluto wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
It is a product of the central nervous system but could have many different causes. That is why we must think in terms of individual autism instead of generalizing.


Unique expressions doesn't imply similarly unique causes. In a sense, maybe, but the underlying "fundamental" deficits are relatively homogeneous implying a relatively uniform set of causes for the majority of cases. It's just like every snow-flake is unique, but each snow-flake is predictably caused by moisture and freezing temperatures, and physics ensures a hexagonal formation and predictable types of patterns in the shapes.

But there are many ways to freeze water so it becomes a snowflake. People can make their own snowflakes, or a low pressure system can produce a blizzard. Snowflakes exist in snow showers as well.
I wasn't referring to the autism being unique, instead, the cause could be unique, not the autism itself. So, one person could have been born premature and develop autism, while another had a brain injury of some kind. I am a bit autistic because of a genetic syndrome. That is the reason why for me. Do I assume everyone who posts on WP has the same genetic syndrome and that must be what caused their autism? It's doubtful.



aghogday
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02 Apr 2011, 8:29 pm

glider18 wrote:
aghogday wrote:
.....Not all people with Autism have the digit ratio correlation, so there are obviously other factors at play. The digit ratio measurement is suggestive only in a correlation sense, just like the many online tests.....In the Cohen study the correlation of the digit ratio was much stronger in the those considered to have Lower Functioning Autism. The ratios for those with Aspergers were closer to what is found in the normal population.


Thank you for clarifying this. A couple years ago I was really into researching the digit ratio, and I was interested in the statistics. You answered something I was not able to find then.


Your welcome. I also found it interesting that they talk about athletes having low digit ratios and exposure to testosterone in the womb. But, the thing I noticed is the digit ratio is lower in the evidence they presented for athletes with the left hand, as opposed to a lower ratio for the correlation of Autism and the right hand as opposed to the left hand.

A football player obviously has better spatial orientation than most people with autism. I think this may be where the genetic influence comes into play.

All fetuses start out as female and the influence of testosterone plays the role in deciding gender. Excess amounts of testosterone at different points in pregnancy could produce a variety of expression; not just related to autism or athletics.



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02 Apr 2011, 8:43 pm

The blue baby theme is interesting also. My son who is on the spectrum was a blue baby. He stopped moving and I went in and had an emergency csection. He had a double wrapped cord and a true knot in his cord and was in the NICU for a week. He also had a stroke right after birth and left vocal cord paralysis.



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02 Apr 2011, 8:49 pm

autism (of all kinds) is about 80% heritable...which is higher than the heritability estimates for most developmental and mental disorders (including schizophrenia and bipolar disorder).It is polygenic (many different genetic and probably chromosomal anomalies contribute to it). There are probably also prenatal influences.....and in some cases viruses or brain injury may contribute (but those would be rare cases). No one knows the cause at this time (as so many people said) but a major contributor is genetics….many different genes!

AS is a pervasive developmental disorder....distinct from a developmental delay.



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02 Apr 2011, 9:01 pm

daydreamer84 wrote:
autism (of all kinds) is about 80% heritable...which is higher than the heritability estimates for most developmental and mental disorders (including schizophrenia and bipolar disorder).It is polygenic (many different genetic and probably chromosomal anomalies contribute to it). There are probably also prenatal influences.....and in some cases viruses or brain injury may contribute (but those would be rare cases). No one knows the cause at this time (as so many people said) but a major contributor is genetics….many different genes!

AS is a pervasive developmental disorder....distinct from a developmental delay.


Sometimes I wonder, in Autism, if prenatal influences may influence developmental delays, more than genetics. I haven't seen any research specific to that. But it is interesting that the people with Aspergers in Cohen's studies had higher digit ratios than those with Autism and developmental delays.



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02 Apr 2011, 9:01 pm

twinsmummy20 wrote:
The blue baby theme is interesting also. My son who is on the spectrum was a blue baby. He stopped moving and I went in and had an emergency csection. He had a double wrapped cord and a true knot in his cord and was in the NICU for a week. He also had a stroke right after birth and left vocal cord paralysis.


I find it interesting, too, but I don't put much stock in it. While I and my younger brother were blue babies (for different reasons), my older brother was not and he is the one with classic Autism.


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twinsmummy20
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02 Apr 2011, 10:09 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
twinsmummy20 wrote:
The blue baby theme is interesting also. My son who is on the spectrum was a blue baby. He stopped moving and I went in and had an emergency csection. He had a double wrapped cord and a true knot in his cord and was in the NICU for a week. He also had a stroke right after birth and left vocal cord paralysis.


I find it interesting, too, but I don't put much stock in it. While I and my younger brother were blue babies (for different reasons), my older brother was not and he is the one with classic Autism.


My son after him who is 2 was a mec baby and in the NICU for 3 weeks with respiratory failure and almost died. He doesnt act aspie all. So who knows right...

As for my husband being developmentally delayed ect, I didnt know if aspergers is considered a developmental delay or not. Im new to this whole thing and he has aspergers (self dx but I am sure we could get a real one when the time comes) so I wasnt sure if they went hand in hand!



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03 Apr 2011, 9:11 am

aghogday wrote:
Poke wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
Poke wrote:
The "cause" of autism is any brain condition that results in autistic behavior.


That's like saying the cause of daylight is sunshine.


Unfortunately, that's as specific as we can get, as there are an infinite number of ways those abnormalities can come to be.


True, we don't know exactly what causes it. But, it could be extremely important, in finding out what influences it, to lessen the impact of the expression Autism. For instance, managing stress during pregnancy has always been seen of importance. In general, good prenatal care, is one of the best things an expectant mother can do for a healthy pregnancy and infant.

Research on maternal stress and the relationship to Autism, could be another possible motivator for some women to manage stress during pregnancy. Regardless of how strong the real relationship of Autism and pregnancy is, it is a win-win scenario to do the best to manage stress, in any case.

Some other theories show the importance of prenatal care in general to reduce the expression of Autism. Proper nutrition and vitamin intake could also be an influencing factor.

I don't think the importance of knowledge and research in this area can be underestimated.


That all presumes that the "degree of expression of autism" really is a matter of degree, and not simply kind. Two autistic people could have the same degree of autism, but one could be considered very mild and the other very severe based on nothing except which combination of abilities and difficulties they settled with. (And there's some evidence that many of the differences we see between different autistic people does have something to do with... sort of having a limited number of abilities and difficulties for each person, and each person's brain somehow (based on a whole bunch of things) just 'picking' different combinations of such.) Even a thing as simple as 'picking' understanding language but no understanding of tone, vs. understanding tone but no understanding of language, can have a profound effect on how the "degree" of autism is perceived in each person (unless the second person can fake an understanding, which does happen). I'm putting 'picking' in quotes because it's not a conscious choice but I don't know a better word.


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aghogday
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03 Apr 2011, 1:17 pm

anbuend wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Poke wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
Poke wrote:
The "cause" of autism is any brain condition that results in autistic behavior.


That's like saying the cause of daylight is sunshine.


Unfortunately, that's as specific as we can get, as there are an infinite number of ways those abnormalities can come to be.


True, we don't know exactly what causes it. But, it could be extremely important, in finding out what influences it, to lessen the impact of the expression Autism. For instance, managing stress during pregnancy has always been seen of importance. In general, good prenatal care, is one of the best things an expectant mother can do for a healthy pregnancy and infant.

Research on maternal stress and the relationship to Autism, could be another possible motivator for some women to manage stress during pregnancy. Regardless of how strong the real relationship of Autism and pregnancy is, it is a win-win scenario to do the best to manage stress, in any case.

Some other theories show the importance of prenatal care in general to reduce the expression of Autism. Proper nutrition and vitamin intake could also be an influencing factor.

I don't think the importance of knowledge and research in this area can be underestimated.


That all presumes that the "degree of expression of autism" really is a matter of degree, and not simply kind. Two autistic people could have the same degree of autism, but one could be considered very mild and the other very severe based on nothing except which combination of abilities and difficulties they settled with. (And there's some evidence that many of the differences we see between different autistic people does have something to do with... sort of having a limited number of abilities and difficulties for each person, and each person's brain somehow (based on a whole bunch of things) just 'picking' different combinations of such.) Even a thing as simple as 'picking' understanding language but no understanding of tone, vs. understanding tone but no understanding of language, can have a profound effect on how the "degree" of autism is perceived in each person (unless the second person can fake an understanding, which does happen). I'm putting 'picking' in quotes because it's not a conscious choice but I don't know a better word.


The only thing I am sure of regarding excess testosterone in the womb, is that it affects brain development. There is no conclusive evidence that it causes autism.

Chances are, problems with brain development could contribute to a myriad of problems that influence how Autism is expressed, for example developmental delays, verbal communication, or any of the factors that you listed.

I have no idea of how testosterone and brain development actually influences the expression of autism, and neither does anyone else at this point, so I used the most general wording I could think of to indicate what research might lead to. My intent was to presume nothing specific other than reducing maternal stress and good prenatal care is of positive benefit and a win-win scenario, regardless of the research.