Why don't girls like being around me?

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cyberdad
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10 Apr 2011, 9:24 pm

Rational wrote:
Nice list. I almost certainly have ADHD and I likely have autism/Asperger's. I think I have acceptable hygiene (not sure), I'm often told that I'm very good-looking, I'm sure it's nothing about race/religion/money, I'm really good at sports and look athletic, I look very intelligent - too intelligent, actually, I do have friends, my obvious anxiety isn't showing up too often, and I can often repress it very well, so I turn out to be both really brave and a big coward. However, I've always been really awkward. So, my performance with girls has been awful - it won't be far from the truth if I say that I'm virgin, and that I had only one girlfriend that I kissed with, and it was when I was in the 11-15 age range.


Hi
It's been a while since I was in school but I can tell you I never had friends either male or female. Certain years I'd come across another loner and we'd hang out, infact after getting married I really only handle having one friend at a time.

After doing a couple of online scales I suspect am an Aspergers but since I got through life as a "weird" NT, my parents just put my social awkwardness down to my shyness.

Girls have naturally advanced social skills and run rings around school age boys of similar age. All I can suggest is try and build up your self confidence, i'm going to pass the same advice to the other dude so you may want to read on.....



cyberdad
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10 Apr 2011, 9:51 pm

HybridSoul wrote:
And another thing, I'm always called the "weird kid with the glasses." And girls have been so rude as to not even want to sit behind me in the auditorium; "that kid with the glasses is weird.." What the f**k is my problem? What is wrong with me? Am I to be alone forever and become a hermit inside my house and never make a single female friend? A little help here would be great.


Hybridsoul,

Don't fret!

I originally came on this forum as a "self declared" NT with a ASD child and now suspect I myself may have been on the spectrum all along!

When I was in school I had overwhelming urge to talk/socialise/make friends with girls but I had two major flaws. First I was painfully shy and mumbled alot when I talked. Because I was shy I therefore had no friends. Having no friends is a serious issue with girls because they did not want to committ social suicide to be my friend. I see it now quite clearly.

By middle highschool (around 15 yrs old) I basically gave up completely. I became comfortable being a loner and became quite adept at avoiding bullying by developing an acid tongue. and thats when I noticed something weird.

When I hit 16 I suddenly became a figure of intrigue...here was I a loner but girls were starting to take wagers as who was going to ask me stupid questions. They came in groups and started hassling me! Yes it was weird, the guys ignored me but now the girls were attracted to my presence and started following me. Being bullied by girls for being defiant was actually a big turn on but I didn't take advantage and was too proud to engage with my pretty bullies.

A few girls started taking pity on me and started trying to play "Mother Theresa" giving me life counselling advice. It was another opportunity to get into a girls panties but I reacted in my usual way and brushed them off -

Despite my urges My personal equilibrium has settled down and I accepted that there are some things I was going to change not because I couldn't (I now realised in hindsight I could have easily) but deep down I didn't really want to be a punching bag, or a puppy dog to please others.

Dude! taking personal pride in yourself and feeling confident in the face of difficult odds is the way to breeze through school. Don't grovel to the little s**ts just to be friends (this includes the girlies). Take a deep breath....and be yourself - warts and all.....don't change to make others feel better.

Second judge people on face value the same way you want to be judged. Once you believe in yourself and not give in to hormones or lonileness then take people as they come. If they are friendly - reciprocate...if not then then ignore them like they are a shrubs in the scenery.

At the end of the day don't feel bad...theres plenty of us who walk life's path by ourselves. So other guys less attractive than you have girl friends, the teacher thinks some dumb guy is smarter than you - dont fall into the trap I did, don't benchmark yourself against stupid NTs - you are unique - one of a kind. If you do talk to a girl then be friendly, if they smile then smile back and be nice but most importantly be yourself.

If nothing happens remember what I said....don't fret....the NT world is not what it's cut out to be. Not by a long shot.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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10 Apr 2011, 10:39 pm

HybridSoul wrote:
Everytime I'm near a girl in class or I'm supposed to work with a girl they refuse to be near me and refuse to work with me.
I f***ing hate myself, maybe I should just kill myself and than no one can be around me. I'm just a scary looking loser....I really don't know why this happens but it really really hurts me inside. I feel dead. What is wrong with me?

I had that problem in Home Economics class. I was in a cooking group and no one wanted to eat the hamburger I made. I thought they were all incredibly rude.

There's nothing wrong with you, it's just people are rude.



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10 Apr 2011, 11:10 pm

Firstly: Plenty of people, AS and non, have trouble in high school (which I assume you're in, college is a different can of worms entirely). This is universal across nearly every school in the country. People like to chalk it up to "teenagers suck," but even a passing glance at the behaviors historically encouraged by a closed system like a high school will show that it is a breeding ground for petty-mindedness and contempt in any age group. High school is really a poorly executed idea that was never very good to begin with, clung to by modern society mostly because it has no immediately apparent ill effect on anyone of voting age and because it is, by however narrow a margin, better than no school system at all. Probably. So, none of this is your fault. It's the Prussians' fault. They invented this system back in the 19th century. Stupid Prussians.

Anyways, specific girls might not like you by default because you're weird or whatever, but most of them are probably either turned off by a lack of confidence/your bitterness, or else just following the crowd. The lack of confidence/abundance of bitterness issue is probably mostly a result of your environment (what did they expect your reaction to their cruel apathy would be?), but it's the only part you have control over.

Everything past here is stuff that worked in my specific situation to make things better than they were before...But my situation is not exactly the same as yours and it didn't ever make me the most popular guy on campus, but it got me more respect than I got before. So, it's worth a shot, is what I'm saying here.

When someone (regardless of gender, really) refuses to work with you, tell them that the feeling is mutual (even if it isn't), you don't really want to work with them either, but you've got work to do and you're not going to let someone else's stupid, petty vendetta with you get in the way of that. If she still won't work with you (the first time around, she probably won't), ask the teacher to assign you a different partner, because the one you've got is too immature to put her social games aside long enough to work with you. And reread that last sentence until the attitude sinks in. She is acting like a child, and you really should be giving off the vibe that this kind of attitude is not something someone of her age should have, nor something that you should have to put up with, because you shouldn't. In the event that the teacher refuses to reassign you, roll your eyes and mutter something under your breath to give the impression that he, too, has been assigned to the category of "overgrown child getting in the way of my education" in your mind. If, at any point, another student confronts you about this kind of attitude, don't give them the time of day. You have every right to think of immature people as immature, and you don't have to defend yourself over it. If you project the attitude that social games are a nuisance unworthy of your concern and not an actual threat to your mental stability, the message will start to sink in and people will eventually start to back off and try to avoid getting in your way, which in this case means doing their classwork with you if they're supposed to.

Of course, that's not entirely true. People have committed suicide over social rejection. It's nothing to casually dismiss. But if you act like it is, then people will take notice. If you pretend to be confident and independent, people will start to treat you like you are, which will help you actually become confident and independent.

And again, take this advice with a grain of salt, because it's only been used once.



cyberdad
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11 Apr 2011, 1:31 am

Chamomile wrote:
Firstly: Plenty of people, AS and non, have trouble in high school (which I assume you're in, college is a different can of worms entirely). This is universal across nearly every school in the country. People like to chalk it up to "teenagers suck," but even a passing glance at the behaviors historically encouraged by a closed system like a high school will show that it is a breeding ground for petty-mindedness and contempt in any age group. High school is really a poorly executed idea that was never very good to begin with, clung to by modern society mostly because it has no immediately apparent ill effect on anyone of voting age and because it is, by however narrow a margin, better than no school system at all. Probably. So, none of this is your fault. It's the Prussians' fault. They invented this system back in the 19th century. Stupid Prussians.

Anyways, specific girls might not like you by default because you're weird or whatever, but most of them are probably either turned off by a lack of confidence/your bitterness, or else just following the crowd. The lack of confidence/abundance of bitterness issue is probably mostly a result of your environment (what did they expect your reaction to their cruel apathy would be?), but it's the only part you have control over.

Everything past here is stuff that worked in my specific situation to make things better than they were before...But my situation is not exactly the same as yours and it didn't ever make me the most popular guy on campus, but it got me more respect than I got before. So, it's worth a shot, is what I'm saying here.

When someone (regardless of gender, really) refuses to work with you, tell them that the feeling is mutual (even if it isn't), you don't really want to work with them either, but you've got work to do and you're not going to let someone else's stupid, petty vendetta with you get in the way of that. If she still won't work with you (the first time around, she probably won't), ask the teacher to assign you a different partner, because the one you've got is too immature to put her social games aside long enough to work with you. And reread that last sentence until the attitude sinks in. She is acting like a child, and you really should be giving off the vibe that this kind of attitude is not something someone of her age should have, nor something that you should have to put up with, because you shouldn't. In the event that the teacher refuses to reassign you, roll your eyes and mutter something under your breath to give the impression that he, too, has been assigned to the category of "overgrown child getting in the way of my education" in your mind. If, at any point, another student confronts you about this kind of attitude, don't give them the time of day. You have every right to think of immature people as immature, and you don't have to defend yourself over it. If you project the attitude that social games are a nuisance unworthy of your concern and not an actual threat to your mental stability, the message will start to sink in and people will eventually start to back off and try to avoid getting in your way, which in this case means doing their classwork with you if they're supposed to.

Of course, that's not entirely true. People have committed suicide over social rejection. It's nothing to casually dismiss. But if you act like it is, then people will take notice. If you pretend to be confident and independent, people will start to treat you like you are, which will help you actually become confident and independent.

And again, take this advice with a grain of salt, because it's only been used once.


Good post, if only I had your maturity when I was in school!
.Just one thing I wanted to point out. In an education environment (school or university) you can utilize the pedagogical framework to your advantage (as you have) to get your class lab work or class tutorial work or group assignments done. In the process get noticed for being a diligent student by your colleagues. It also helps if you have brains to make a good fist of it (AKA Big Bang Theory nerds impressing the chicks).

However this this does not always apply;
- If you are in a lower socio-economic demographic school then standing up for yourself in the classroom will result in you getting beaten up after class...no hiding...
- In private schools/colleges favoritism, nepotism and bullying are rife and often perpetrated by teachers against students who don't fit in. It's easy to be totally isolated from your fellow students and there is nowhere to take refuge.
- Standing up to your fellow students may give you more respect in their eyes but if you are not part of the main social cliques then you could be asking for an escalation of the ostracizing and bullying outside of classroom. A scenario out of Golding's Lord of the Flies or where the group decides to turn on you can easily occur.

Giving advice is really hard because the situational factors and social cognition/schemas of the main social groups will differ between schools and between countries. What works for you may not work for others.

Suicide is a real problem with ostracized youth. Being yourself and having confidence in who you are (not apologising for your personality or masking or hiding your identity) is the first step in buidling self esteem. Once this is done then handling non-cooperative class mates in group work can be done systematically in accordance with the situation. Its not easy to be strategic when you are socially awkward to start of with. Fix the basics first.



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11 Apr 2011, 3:19 am

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Good post, if only I had your maturity when I was in school!


Well, thanks, but truth be told, I wasn't that mature, just very, very elitist and determined to make my contempt for people less intelligent than me abundantly clear. It wasn't until after I got to a better environment that I was able to sort out which of my strategies had actually worked and why, and which had only made things worse.

On reflection, the rest of Cyberdad's post is entirely accurate. Without any details, it's impossible to give good advice and very easy to give very bad advice.



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11 Apr 2011, 3:23 am

You keep asking what's "wrong with you"; but I'm starting to think that what we're seeing here is probably a simple case of social ostracism--something that can happen to anyone who is odd in any way. In other words: There's nothing wrong with you; you're just autistic. What's wrong is that the people around you do not know how to connect with people different from themselves. This scares them, so they avoid you or possibly attack you. People naturally prefer it when they can predict other people; and sometimes they will even assume that if they cannot predict you, you must be malicious in some way. They may be afraid that you will act in a way that embarrasses them.

At this age, people are quite horrible at understanding those who are not like themselves. Teenagers are some of the worst when it comes to prejudice based on gender, race, sex, or sexual orientation; and disability is just one more reason to target someone. So... stop asking what's wrong with you. It's more of a problem with the world you live in, a world in which people who are different will get rejected by people who have no clue how to react to somebody who isn't exactly like them.


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cyberdad
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11 Apr 2011, 6:09 am

Chamomile wrote:
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Without any details, it's impossible to give good advice and very easy to give very bad advice.


Which applies to the advice I just gave...



cyberdad
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11 Apr 2011, 6:14 am

Callista wrote:
At this age, people are quite horrible at understanding those who are not like themselves. Teenagers are some of the worst when it comes to prejudice based on gender, race, sex, or sexual orientation; and disability is just one more reason to target someone.It's more of a problem with the world you live in, a world in which people who are different will get rejected by people who have no clue how to react to somebody who isn't exactly like them.


Excellent! I would just add that the "Shirley Bassey" factor applies here in that it's all just a little history repeating. teenagers have been behaving this way since man first emerged from caves following the ice age.

I think this is an example of biological determinism that dictates how teenagers will behave in accordance to their developmental programming. No wonder Chamomile and I look at that cohort like a bunch of brainless sheep.



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11 Apr 2011, 3:07 pm

HybridSoul wrote:
It's not about talking to girls its about them not wanting to be anyway near me. Like for instance when I first started in my new school I was in the office and I sat like one seat away from this girl and she muttered something aggressively and moved way far away from me. Another instance is that we were standing by the door waiting for the bell to ring on Friday in my gym class and I was near this girl who gave me a funny look and she moved away from me. I overheard her saying something about me while looking me in the eye to another person.

This happens a lot. In my old school and my new school, so it isn't the people that are wrong -- it has to be me. But I dress properly, don't stare, and always shower. Even when I'm not talking to anybody they'll say that I'm weird.


I recommend talking to a counselor/therapist/etc about this. They could help you determine what's going wrong in these situations.

I wonder if it's a body language issue. In my case, I've come to understand that people often don't want to come near me because I'm giving off social signals through body language that I'm unapproachable. I never realized it until a manager pointed it out to me at my old job. I have a natural scowl on my face when I'm around others that turns them off. I've worked on improving these things over the last few years, and it's made a big difference in my ability to work with others. It's not easy for me, though, and it's something I have to concentrate on constantly.

If your problem is something like this, a good and honest social skills coach could be helpful.



Last edited by Scarecrow on 12 Apr 2011, 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ducky9924
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11 Apr 2011, 8:55 pm

First off, everything thats been said above.

Secondly: Girls are Crazy.. I say this as a girl.

If you're being called scary, that might be the first thing you need to deal with. Without seeing a picture, it's hard to know why. So I'm gunna take a couple shots in the dark here.

1) Do you dress in goth, trench coats, gang cloths, wife-beaters or just alot of black? If so, stop it. Self expressions great, but if you want to be approachable, pick clothes that make you less, not more, threatening. If you don't think this is the issue, try asking a friend why you look scary.

2) Do you scowl alot? If you spend all day scowling with a frown on your face, you're not approachable. Find, and use, every excuse to smile or laugh you can. A big smile can totally defuse any fear factor you might have going. This doesn't mean run around smiling at nothing. Thats kinda creepy in it's own way. Instead smile when anyone makes a joke, good or bad, and smile at people when you make eye contact or pass them in the hall.

I know, it's hard to smile when you're miserable, but if you can manage it, maybe they'll at least stop fleeing your presence. :S



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12 Apr 2011, 7:03 am

According to stuff I read and experienced, Aspie guys have the best chances with maternal, nurturing kind of girls. :) Unfortunately most girls aren't like that in teenage years, not yet anyway. There are a lot more of them in their 20s or 30s. If you don't mind dating girls older than you, there are probably more opportunities.

Aspie guys also have fair chance with Aspie girls, they can become very content friends. Although they don't compensate each other's weaknesses as well. Like neither would have many friends or much social life, bills get behind because they both are disorganized...etc.



b9
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12 Apr 2011, 11:54 am

why do birds suddenly appear?
every time i am near?
just like me, they want to be close to me

there is no place really to be except in me, and i am happy i am here in me.


the few working neurons that i have currently active after the rest of my mind went to sleep are not enough to support a lengthy sentence.



cyberdad
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12 Apr 2011, 11:19 pm

y-pod wrote:
According to stuff I read and experienced, Aspie guys have the best chances with maternal, nurturing kind of girls. :) Unfortunately most girls aren't like that in teenage years, not yet anyway. There are a lot more of them in their 20s or 30s. If you don't mind dating girls older than you, there are probably more opportunities.


Try 40s...unfortunately girls are waiting longer these days to have kids and for their maternal "cluckiness" doesn't kick in till then. It probably takes a few years for all the Vodka cruisers and late night parties to leave their system.

Dating General Rule of thumb: When a girl gets "clucky" around 18-30 they are usually already engaged to be married.



johnnydangerous
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13 Apr 2011, 10:29 am

cyberdad wrote:
y-pod wrote:
According to stuff I read and experienced, Aspie guys have the best chances with maternal, nurturing kind of girls. :) Unfortunately most girls aren't like that in teenage years, not yet anyway. There are a lot more of them in their 20s or 30s. If you don't mind dating girls older than you, there are probably more opportunities.


Try 40s...unfortunately girls are waiting longer these days to have kids and for their maternal "cluckiness" doesn't kick in till then. It probably takes a few years for all the Vodka cruisers and late night parties to leave their system.

Dating General Rule of thumb: When a girl gets "clucky" around 18-30 they are usually already engaged to be married.


I agree with this. Older women are the best bet for aspie guys looking to date. Girls in 20's forget about it, and girls in their 30's (who should be women at this point, but most are not in this country) are often still immature for their age.

"Women mature faster than men" is a myth. From my experience, the opposite is true. Men are ready for a serious relationship FAR EARLIER in life than women are. Women in their 30's still want to "party" and still chase "the bad boy". Kind of sad, actually.



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13 Apr 2011, 4:59 pm

How old are you?