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Aspie biker wrongly convicted of rape gets 2 years prison

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Surfman
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14 Apr 2011, 1:40 am

Shebakoby wrote:
This is what happens when the cops' "Bikers = automatically evil" mentality goes WAY out of control.


He wasnt even a big bad 'biker', he rode a small engine Japanese trail bike



Verdandi
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14 Apr 2011, 1:50 am

League_Girl wrote:
OMG, I remember believing almost every word my ex said to me about me he had me thinking I was worse than I really am and other things and also had me believe my mom was just saying all these things to me so I wouldn't feel bad about myself because "that is what parents do." But I took it as anyone can believing something if they are told it over and over, that is why some women stay with their abusive husbands because they think they are better off with them because their husband had convinced them no other man would want them or that they are worthless and they treat them that way because they love her. So I vowed to myself to never do that again, do not listen to the next person what they say about me, that is why I don't listen to my husband much unless they are facts.


Yeah. I relate to this a lot. My abuser was a woman, rather than a man, but the dynamics were pretty much the same. In retrospect I can see how my ex was very manipulative emotionally and otherwise, by creating this image of me that was not me, but that she could convince me was me, and use that image to convince me to do things that I did not want to do or think I should do, or convince me I was a horrible person for not fitting into yet another image of me that she could use to show me how I failed to measure up to her standards.

Oh, appropriate for this thread:

Gaslighting (link):

Wikipedia wrote:
Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented to the victim with the intent of making them doubt their own memory and perception. It may simply be the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, or it could be the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim. Gaslighting had a colloquial origin explained below, but the term has also been used in clinical and research literature.



League_Girl
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14 Apr 2011, 1:50 am

Apple_in_my_Eye wrote:
@League_Girl

They assume that an innocent person will deny they did it, no matter what evidence is presented, or how hard they're pushed, or what threats are made.

The trouble, of course, is that that isn't true. A person might start to doubt themselves; I've read about cases where people (presumably NT people) agreed to false confessions, as a result of extremely aggressive interrogations. Or maybe the person thinks there's a DNA lab error (or that the prosecutor rigged the test) or who-knows-what, and knows that they'll have little chance of proving that (even if true), so they figure they might as well sign a false confession in exchange for a lesser charge.

Basically, lots of people can be bullied into a false confession if pushed hard enough. And that contradicts the assumption that an innocent person would never do that.

(I think there are also a lot of psychological things going on on the police side of things, but that's more than I can think to write about tonight.)


I remember reading how mentally ret*d people tend to confess to crimes they didn't commit sand juveniles too.

But what still baffles me is if their DNA was no where found, how can they be guilty to a crime they committed if there is no signs of their DNA near the crime scene? Even if the lie detector test doesn't indicate they are lying, how would it still make them guilty of a crime they didn't do?

I have had a moment in the past where my school counselor tried to get me to say something he wanted to hear and I refused to give them the answer he wanted to hear because it wasn't true so he answered it anyway as if I gave him the answer he wanted to hear.

Now I just get very angry when people ask me the same questions over and over when I have already answered them. I wonder how the police will take it if I all of a sudden snapped at them and insulted them because they wouldn't stop asking me the same questions over and over until they get an answer they wanted to hear? Or what if I called them out on their sick twisted games they are trying to pull with me?

But I have also learned this year to never ever talk to the police when they ask you questions because they do twist your words around so that is why we have the rights to remain silent and only ask to speak to a lawyer.

I think police officers are bullies IMO.



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14 Apr 2011, 1:55 am

Verdandi wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
OMG, I remember believing almost every word my ex said to me about me he had me thinking I was worse than I really am and other things and also had me believe my mom was just saying all these things to me so I wouldn't feel bad about myself because "that is what parents do." But I took it as anyone can believing something if they are told it over and over, that is why some women stay with their abusive husbands because they think they are better off with them because their husband had convinced them no other man would want them or that they are worthless and they treat them that way because they love her. So I vowed to myself to never do that again, do not listen to the next person what they say about me, that is why I don't listen to my husband much unless they are facts.


Yeah. I relate to this a lot. My abuser was a woman, rather than a man, but the dynamics were pretty much the same. In retrospect I can see how my ex was very manipulative emotionally and otherwise, by creating this image of me that was not me, but that she could convince me was me, and use that image to convince me to do things that I did not want to do or think I should do, or convince me I was a horrible person for not fitting into yet another image of me that she could use to show me how I failed to measure up to her standards.

Oh, appropriate for this thread:

Gaslighting (link):

Wikipedia wrote:
Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented to the victim with the intent of making them doubt their own memory and perception. It may simply be the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, or it could be the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim. Gaslighting had a colloquial origin explained below, but the term has also been used in clinical and research literature.



That is such a sad thing to do to a person. I did it as a joke as a stupid teen, but I feel so bad about it now.



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14 Apr 2011, 2:07 am

twinsmummy20 wrote:

That is such a sad thing to do to a person. I did it as a joke as a stupid teen, but I feel so bad about it now.


It's one thing to do it as a stupid joke and realize that it was a mistake. It's another thing to do it consistently over a long-term period. I got that from my ex, I recently got it from a guy I was chatting with socially in a group chat, who was setting up a pretty thorough gaslighting framework when I cut him off entirely. I got it during my childhood and teen years, too, as my father was also abusive. The guy in this story was convinced he committed a crime when he was nowhere near the scene.

While it is not really okay to do it as a joke, it's such a huge difference between that and consistently and often aggressively pushing a false worldview onto someone who doesn't really have the tools to contradict it, and done in ways that can go so far as to ruin lives.



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14 Apr 2011, 2:22 am

Verdandi wrote:
twinsmummy20 wrote:

That is such a sad thing to do to a person. I did it as a joke as a stupid teen, but I feel so bad about it now.


It's one thing to do it as a stupid joke and realize that it was a mistake. It's another thing to do it consistently over a long-term period. I got that from my ex, I recently got it from a guy I was chatting with socially in a group chat, who was setting up a pretty thorough gaslighting framework when I cut him off entirely. I got it during my childhood and teen years, too, as my father was also abusive. The guy in this story was convinced he committed a crime when he was nowhere near the scene.

While it is not really okay to do it as a joke, it's such a huge difference between that and consistently and often aggressively pushing a false worldview onto someone who doesn't really have the tools to contradict it, and done in ways that can go so far as to ruin lives.


I know, and I did it because I thought it was cute how innocent my husband was. Not husband at that time though, just bf. I was like wow, this guy is really gullible pretty much lol. I feel bad though, because he thinks about it to tell himself how stupid he is.



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14 Apr 2011, 2:27 am

twinsmummy20 wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
twinsmummy20 wrote:

That is such a sad thing to do to a person. I did it as a joke as a stupid teen, but I feel so bad about it now.


It's one thing to do it as a stupid joke and realize that it was a mistake. It's another thing to do it consistently over a long-term period. I got that from my ex, I recently got it from a guy I was chatting with socially in a group chat, who was setting up a pretty thorough gaslighting framework when I cut him off entirely. I got it during my childhood and teen years, too, as my father was also abusive. The guy in this story was convinced he committed a crime when he was nowhere near the scene.

While it is not really okay to do it as a joke, it's such a huge difference between that and consistently and often aggressively pushing a false worldview onto someone who doesn't really have the tools to contradict it, and done in ways that can go so far as to ruin lives.


I know, and I did it because I thought it was cute how innocent my husband was. Not husband at that time though, just bf. I was like wow, this guy is really gullible pretty much lol. I feel bad though, because he thinks about it to tell himself how stupid he is.


The important thing is it's all in the past, you don't do it anymore and you probably realize now how mean it was and you were immature then and you have grown up since then. So no need to keep beating yourself up over it. Plus you were probably innocent back then too when you did it because you didn't know he was on the spectrum and didn't really understand what was going on and why he did it. We all have to forgive ourselves eventually.



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14 Apr 2011, 2:31 am

League_Girl wrote:
twinsmummy20 wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
twinsmummy20 wrote:

That is such a sad thing to do to a person. I did it as a joke as a stupid teen, but I feel so bad about it now.


It's one thing to do it as a stupid joke and realize that it was a mistake. It's another thing to do it consistently over a long-term period. I got that from my ex, I recently got it from a guy I was chatting with socially in a group chat, who was setting up a pretty thorough gaslighting framework when I cut him off entirely. I got it during my childhood and teen years, too, as my father was also abusive. The guy in this story was convinced he committed a crime when he was nowhere near the scene.

While it is not really okay to do it as a joke, it's such a huge difference between that and consistently and often aggressively pushing a false worldview onto someone who doesn't really have the tools to contradict it, and done in ways that can go so far as to ruin lives.


I know, and I did it because I thought it was cute how innocent my husband was. Not husband at that time though, just bf. I was like wow, this guy is really gullible pretty much lol. I feel bad though, because he thinks about it to tell himself how stupid he is.


The important thing is it's all in the past, you don't do it anymore and you probably realize now how mean it was and you were immature then and you have grown up since then. So no need to keep beating yourself up over it. Plus you were probably innocent back then too when you did it because you didn't know he was on the spectrum and didn't really understand what was going on and why he did it. We all have to forgive ourselves eventually.


This is what I was trying to get at, but stated much more clearly.



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14 Apr 2011, 6:47 am

I can't see anything in the quoted article which points to his Asperger's condition being linked to his conviction. His mother says the police showed photos of suspects to the victim, and the victim picked him out. This is no different from a police line-up. The police were criticised for the questions they asked in the interview. Which questions? No details about them are given. Even the fact he has Asperger's is mentioned in a casual manner.

Surfman wrote:
I wonder when the cops will WAKE UP and realise that an aspie will not respond the same as a neurotypical during interview, and any tell tale clues of guilt will be very hard to decipher unless said officers ARE TRAINED to work with aspergians.

Source? There is nothing in the article to support this.
Surfman wrote:
How long before the NZ police get round to dealing with autistic suspects correctly after a crime?

Again, source? Where does the article suggest that his Asperger's had anything to do with the conviction, or that the cops aren't trained to handle aspies and autistics?



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14 Apr 2011, 7:10 am

sauce??

The many inappropriate facets of the prosecution, the dire failings of the court appointed duty solicitor. Withheld DNA evidence, video alibi putting Farmer elsewhere, other relevant contrary evidence not revealed in court were all a sham by cops who thought they 'had there man' and set up evidence to suit

Nothing much in detail is on the net funnily enough, but Aarons mother was on the telly at 7pm, on PBS BBC NZ style radio at 10-11am

Its all fairly legit



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14 Apr 2011, 7:34 am

Surfman wrote:
sauce??

The many inappropriate facets of the prosecution, the dire failings of the court appointed duty solicitor. Withheld DNA evidence, video alibi putting Farmer elsewhere, other relevant contrary evidence not revealed in court were all a sham by cops who thought they 'had there man' and set up evidence to suit

Nothing much in detail is on the net funnily enough, but Aarons mother was on the telly at 7pm, on PBS BBC NZ style radio at 10-11am

Its all fairly legit

I'm not saying there wasn't malpractice by the police, but I don't see any evidence in the article to suggest that his asperger's had anything to do with his conviction, which is what you are claiming to be true.

By the way, it is "source" and not "sauce" for a place where you get knowledge. "Sauce" is something you eat.



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14 Apr 2011, 8:00 am

League_Girl wrote:


Now I just get very angry when people ask me the same questions over and over when I have already answered them. I wonder how the police will take it if I all of a sudden snapped at them and insulted them because they wouldn't stop asking me the same questions over and over until they get an answer they wanted to hear? Or what if I called them out on their sick twisted games they are trying to pull with me?



That might actually be a good thing since excessive calmness is often a sign of guilt. I think sociopaths that are guilty usually act excessively calm during police interrogations.



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14 Apr 2011, 9:51 am

Venger wrote:
League_Girl wrote:


Now I just get very angry when people ask me the same questions over and over when I have already answered them. I wonder how the police will take it if I all of a sudden snapped at them and insulted them because they wouldn't stop asking me the same questions over and over until they get an answer they wanted to hear? Or what if I called them out on their sick twisted games they are trying to pull with me?



That might actually be a good thing since excessive calmness is often a sign of guilt. I think sociopaths that are guilty usually act excessively calm during police interrogations.


This would be bad for me. I tend to go very flat in affect when in a situation where I am having to respond to authority. I suppose in a case where I was actually being question in a criminal matter, I would have to open the interview with the fact that I am ASD. My mannerisms would be so atypical that I'm sure they would be misinterpreted.


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14 Apr 2011, 3:04 pm

CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
I'm not saying there wasn't malpractice by the police, but I don't see any evidence in the article to suggest that his asperger's had anything to do with his conviction, which is what you are claiming to be true.



I dont have this for you sorry.

''''''''''Mother says son's ordeal could happen to anyone'''''''''''

Is a news video page title that wont open for me :?: :?: :roll: :roll: :twisted:

It appears media is being cleverly manipulated (sorry I dont have any evidence for you, but surely you understand things without evidence?????????) to divert attention from the readily and widely assumed proposition that the questioning methods employed by cops made him look very guilty in the coppers eyes

A lot of spin and PR is around this autistic mans ordeal, it certainly isnt a good look for the police here in NZ



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14 Apr 2011, 3:58 pm

They convicted an innocent man for rape? I suppose the rapist didn't leave any DNA samples to use as evidence against him. Such a criminal mastermind would surely endanger the whole world...



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14 Apr 2011, 4:27 pm

The cops initially made DNA evidence unavailable, I dont know why