NT spouses with Aspergers spouses

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I just read your message about your aspie...I was touched. I am finally putting two and two together realizing that the struggles I am expereincing in my relationship is most likely due to my husband being an aspie - he has not been diagnosed yet. I have mentioned in the past that I think he has autism..he is a special ed teacher...but never had a serious conversation with him about it. Originally, I found many of his traits refreshing..loyalty, saying whatever he was thinking uncensored, being totally into me, excepting me exactly how I am.....after 10 years of marriage and having one child together I find myself most times completely frustrated and misunderstood and the simplist things seem to be so challenging for us to do together....I feel alone and like I am in a relationship with a child who is often tempermental and inflexible. he also has no idea how his behavior effects those around him. The most challenging aspect is social situations...he interrupts, changes the subject almost always , and goes on at length about topics of interest for him like physics and math. I don't know what to do .....
I want to close my eyes and have all of this go away but I think I need to try to tell him I think he has Asperger's to see if he can get some help, relief, make changes..I know he is confused and feels like an outcast but doesn't know what the problem is.
I have read chats where people are saying aspies are a**holes....he definitely isn not aa a**hole...he doesn't mean to be so off putting..but he really is and when I tell him so he gets pissed or blames me for being too anal.
I want to try everything I cazn to have a decent relationship.....I liked him when I met him...
and loved him too... I feel like I am at my wits end.

How should I tell him my concerns?

First, I think you're doing the right thing to ask here, and to have come here in the first place to read about situations like the one you're describing.

Definitely it can be tricky to bring these things up, and maybe since he's a special ed teacher, he already knows or suspects he is on the Autism spectrum. If that's the case, and he's denying it to himself, the first thing will be to get him to think about opening up to himself about it. Or maybe he's totally oblivious, but I almost have to doubt that, since he sees special ed kids everyday, and must see some things that hit home. There are SO many factors in how a person feels about differences or "categorized syndromes/conditions". If he has or had a controlling parent or other relative, it could be that he was given a "MUST BE PERFECT or ruin the family bloodline" complex, as I was. I wasn't even supposed to confess to catching a cold, let alone autism or Asperger's! Those are just a couple of reasons why someone might deny their situation.

As far as when or how to approach your husband, I'd say from my own experience, lead into it from the back door, and not while there is already a problem happening. If you approach him right after there has been a misunderstanding or hurt feelings, it may just come across to him as an attack from you. If you're sitting around and having a nice afternoon or evening, maybe just to bring up how great the memories of your early relationship are. Then carefully lead into how you really appreciate it when he considers your feelings and opinions, and leave out anything about how you hate it when he doesn't, or how it's "not like it used to be". That kind of thing will scare some Aspies back into a defensive mode. My wife may post here also, and I honestly don't remember how she brought it up to me, but I think it was by comparison to others we know with Asperger's. When we met, I know she had to suspect something, because our first date was to drive a 200-mile round trip just to listen to the monthly test of the tsunami warning sirens in Huntington Beach, CA. And I'm not kidding. She tolerated that, and that's when I knew she must really like me, or she's as crazy and nutty as I am, LOL... She is also a former special ed teacher. We had been together for about 4 years before the Asperger's thing came to discussion, and honestly, I was relieved and even pleased, that finally some sort of an answer for my "weirdness" had come up. Our therapist (M.D.-psychiatrist) confirmed the diagnosis quickly, and even said she had suspected it for several years prior, and that she was reluctant to bring it up to me due to the possibility I'd get offended and rebel against care. I didn't rebel at all, and I'm a stubborn Irishman to whom you can tell NOTHING when I don't want to listen. So whatever my wife said or did, was the right way to get through to me about Asperger's.

I wish you the best, and I can say that based on all I personally know and what I have read, Asperger's is seldom if ever a cause for the end of a good relationship. I think it can work out fine, if he is willing to work with you, and if you are patient with him should he rebel at first, or have a hard time understanding what he needs to do, etc.

Charles

Thank you so much for the insight.
Your story makes me feel hopeful...

To tmalbasa

I have to say I'm glad that anything I might have said has helped in any way, thus far. So thank you for saying so.

And secondly, I had to have my husband write you first on this, because there is a lot I don't understand when it comes to the inevitable defensiveness on the part of the Aspie. I was lucky in that he was sooooo aware of his social awkwardness, that giving it a name (or recognizing his different (slightly odd) style of communicating), actually seemed to help.

I do remember, however, that the first few times I might have mentioned it to him, he did not "jump on the bandwagon" as far as wanting any more labels attached to him. The problem he had with any labels is that in his past, they had placed so many "wrong" labels on him (as far as why he was different), that one more label probably seemed like just another criticism, and something that he would have to feel bad about all over again.

I should add here that if you have been married for ten years and have a child together, you are certainly doing something right! And I'll also add that I do remember how it felt when we first started going out, like I was "everything" to my husband. I sort of became one of his obsessions in a way. And certainly, as with most things, the intensity of that obsessive beginning will inevitably wane a bit, no matter how good the relationship is. But my point was going to be that I believe that you can definitely get some of that back again.

The introspection I like the most in my husband's writing above is that he refers to being told his good qualities first (or even when he does something very well) first. And that is important. From the moment I met him, I was fascinated by how his mind worked! Of course, he wasn't built up back then like he is now, so I'm speaking of just his "mind" on this. I remember how he could go on and on about something I had never even thought about, as well as go in depth to the point that I felt like I was back in college, learning something important (that maybe I should be writing down). But later, I began to understand that there would be plenty more times in the future when I would hear the same, deep observations of his, and there was no need for a pen and paper, because he would gladly explain them all over again the next time I might want to know about it (and perhaps, even a few times when I didn't want to know about it, as well).

But my point is that I was fascinated with how "incredibly well" his mind worked in a few areas, and that served me well, perhaps, when I was ultimately ready to explain how "one or two things" about the way his mind worked in social interactions, did not seem to work as well. I imagine all Aspies at one time were either mis-labeled, put down for being social outcasts, teased, or even found themselves with very few real friends, when growing up. I try to remember this fact every time I share something that might help his social skills at say, a party or a gathering of my friends. I have to remember that he has every right to feel judged, and ridiculed even, especially if I forget to remind him how much better his mind works in his specific areas than any single person at that party could ever dream of understanding.

And I don't mean for that to come out in a condescending way, either, it is just meant to remind myself (as well as others) that if I were going to be the one being "helped" in the area of his expertise, I would also want him to be kind about my lack of "instant understanding" as well. In fact, I think it even helped when we started talking about one of his areas first (I believe this helped remind him how much I admired him, on one level). So maybe the next part of the conversation might not come across as so belittling or negative, if I also threw in something like, "at the next party we go to, I'd love it if you would remember how much more you know about this particular subject, than anyone else in the room does." And I might add something like, "I'm hoping you wouldn't mind doing me a favor of at least pretending to listen to what our other friends are saying before you decide to share anything at all." I even asked him politely, of course, to try and use one or more words that our friends had just used before sharing (in order to show a sort of "segue" into what he was going to talk about next).

Granted, at first, this might not have gone so well, but it was a start. So that now, instead of listening to our friends talk about apple pie, and then have him cut in with, "speaking of apple pie, I love it, . . . . you know what else I love? Sirens and diesels, and old TVs and radios, etc." Now it might go more like this, "I guess apple pie has nothing to do with what I was going to talk about, but is anyone else interested in sirens, diesels, old TVs or radios?" And it might not seem that different to anyone else, but it has made a world of difference with our friends that he simply acknowledges first that he is making a "segue," and that it might be to something that no one else really wants to talk about at all. This one step alone, has begun to endear my friends to him. They will even occasionally ask him about one of his expert opinions on something that they are battling with themselves.

So I guess the moral to the story is going to be, how much, and how soon, are you going to share with your husband about these "odd" or "off-putting" behaviors of his, versus how much you are willing to share about his "amazing" amount of knowledge in both math and science. And I have to add here, that if you have been tolerant and pretty much accepting of his Aspberger-like traits up to this point, I believe he is very lucky to have you in the first place, and perhaps he will feel even luckier when he finds out what a great "coach" you might become, once he really accepts the fact that his social skills are not as incredible as his math and science skills are. I also hope he comes to learn that your pointing a few things out to him, is not the equivalent of being "anal" or needing him to be perfect either. It just is what it is.

Neither you nor I would probably attempt to lead a discussion on rocket science (assuming you, like me, don't have exceptional skills in that area, yourself, of course). But I think it is just a matter of time before your other half might start to see that if you do have a better set of social skills than he does, perhaps he might one day look at this as a good thing. If he truly understands that you are not trying to put him down or judge him for being the way he is, any more than he judges or puts you down for not completely grasping his set of math and science skills either.

Sorry I have rambled on, but I do hope that there is something to take away from both my husband's and my perspectives on Aspie/NT relationships in general. On a side note, I'd love to know if your child (daughter or son) shows any sings of Asperger's as well, or if he or she is pretty much an NT. And thanks for sharing your story with us. I truly hope that the next ten years will be as good, if not better, than your first ten years together have been. Best of luck from both of us.

Geez I guess aspies spouses are a-o-k!

Firstly, I have to say that over the last couple of months of reading these forums, it's been a form of self discovery for me. My handle of NTgal doesn't really seem appropriate anymore, and I would more likely say it is NotsoNTgal. Having said that, I am in a relationship with a man who is going through getting a DX at the moment for AS. Although I am not a professional, I am confident that his DX will prove positive.

I've found this thread interesting, because a lot of what has been said about NT/Aspie relationships, I have found to ring very untrue in our situation. I don't know if it's his aspieness, or just his general character, but from the word go, I have loved that he is interested in most of what I have to say. I can talk about my interests (which are not necessarily his) and his eyes won't glaze over in boredom. Also because of his aspieness, I feel that I am challenged mentally which has been very stimulating for me. I also like that he will have interests that aren't mine either, but he will introduce me to them, and I find that I have an interest in something that I have never thought about before. Of course it is not all rosey. There are times where he will get frustrated at me because I am not understanding something he is trying to explain, and I find this frustrating also, because I fear at these times he will think I am stupid and find a crack in my character. There are also times where he will have what I call "meltdowns", which apparently are not, but they are something to me. These are times where I will not agree with him on something, and he will end up becoming irate, but not outwardly. He will normally become very quite, tense, and will exhibit his anger by slamming things. At these times, I know in general that this will pass, and I know not to take it personally. It can also occur when things in general do not go as he would have planned, again, I know just to keep quiet and let things pass, as I know from previous experience that to try and calm a person down in this state, will generally lead to a more negative situation (not with him, but with past experiences I have had).

I also love that because of his aspieness, both he and I have similar tastes when it comes to organisation. We are building a house together, and we have agreed on pretty much everything from the word go, and our ideas for the house and how to organise it seem to gel. I also love how he corrects me. I have mentioned to him at times I don't find it appropriate, because I might be in a sensitive mood, and take the correction as highlighting a flaw in my character, but in general, I have found that it has made me a better person, and I become frustrated when I now hear other people make the same mistakes I used to. I don't like it when he points out that I used to make these mistakes, because of the character issue, but I do appreciate how it has made me a better person (or at least I hope so). There was a period of time recently, where I did feel like mentioned in some of the above posts, that I was suddenly in a relationship with a robot, but what I found, and have always found in our relationship, is that when something is bothering me, that I talk about it to him. He didn't realise that he was being this way, but it was due to the stress of the impending DX and also being over-vigilant of his behaviour that was making him behave in what I considered to be, an unusual way. Luckily talking about this addressed the issue and things returned to their normal way. I did find it interesting to read these posts, as this is what I *somewhat* experienced in those 8 or so weeks, I think it would kill me if I had to deal with it on a daily basis all the time, in fact, I couldn't.

Ok, I will stop rambling now, I just wanted to put my two cents in, and point out that I think that a NTish/AS relationship can work, you just have to communicate, if you don't, no relationship will work.

Cheers, NotsoNTgal

Regarding telling your spouce they may have AS: I'm not married but when I was finding out I had a very hard time accepting my social skills weren't greate. I was actualy kind of touchy about it becuase I had worked so increadibly to get each small piece of skill. I'd lost friends, gotten into fights been riculed and humiliated more times than I could remember and I was so much better than I used to be that the idea that those skills weren't good was unacceptable.

That's a good point. AS people do work very hard on social skills, and it can hurt when someone points out that you still aren't as good as most people. They don't know how hard you worked on it, so it feels like they are dismissing all that effort.

I think, if you are going to tell an Aspie that they are making mistakes, it is better to also remind them that they are improving--"Here's a way to continue improving" rather than "Your social skills are terrible; stop doing X and Y". It helps a bit when people know that however terrible you are, you are indeed trying and steadily learning more.

How about something as simple as the idea of mini-separate vacactions when one or both of you take an occasional night apart to go to see something in another city for example? (full-blown separate vactions probably aren't as practical)

With depression, as I've read, often has a biochem component and medication can be hit or miss.
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/aug/03 ... ug-choice3

And, not having had good luck with mental health professionals, I like the idea that a regular doctor like an internist or family practitioner can prescribe an anti-depressant just fine.

PS And what is this interesting sounding alexithymia?

And wishing you well during this rough patch.

I'm an Aspie guy in my late 30s, who has been with my wife since I was 30 and she 25. Despite my counseling post-dx, here and there I still miss unstated expectations and say things that she takes out of context, that I ought to have known were improper from her point of view. I told her about my Dx some time ago, but she kept pushing the line "that's not an excuse, you just have to try harder, I will never accept that." Even though she told me that I've improved, she still criticizes me now and then for "not being where I should be" and that "you should have overcome this by now, I don't know how much longer I can deal with this" - again, all the while stating that whenever I claim Aspergers, it's just an excuse and I need try harder.

It really adds insult to injury, because she also said I'm an extremely hard working and bright person (just not with applied smarts, like housing projects...typical Aspie) so that sort of contradicts the "try harder" statement. Once again, that's confusing desire with ability. It's about spontaneous cognition of situational context, which is not about trying or preparation but just "knowing". Still, she refuses to read up on AS, because she refuses to believe that I have such a condition. It's unfortunate, but we keep hanging on.

Thanks for sharing this. As an NT (well, maybe not so NT as I once thought), it's a very interesting read. I have dealt with what you deal with when watching my parents. One refused to understand the mental illness of the other, which led to problems within the relationship. As a result, I have vowed never to be like that with my partner. I am guilty of assuming that he should get things if they've been done a certain way for a number of years, and am surprised when he fails to get this, but I do understand that it's due to his aspieness. I try not to bring up things because of the fear of nagging, but I find that bringing them up only seems to help the situation, as we have a better understanding of each other than we did previously. I get frustrated when I hear the "you just have to try harder". I have Diagnosed Anxiety Disorder, and am constantly told by my family "just be more happy and stop being negative all the time". Of course, I wish this would help, but it doesn't. Even long before I discovered the AS thing with my partner, I was a strong believer in communication. Something we've mostly always been good at.

i married to female NT and i am aspie ...
Believe me NTs are not an easy bunch to please ....their obssesions with judgments,jealosy,greed,vengence......all puzzle the heck out of us aspies. Nts have this defect in their person that makes it nessecary to constantly reassure them that you love them..daily . I think the word is selfcentered beliefs. So again ,NO NT is easy to get along with . our marriage is great , but needed alot of patience on both sides.

Nts always take the truth as an offense.... they call it abuse language......
having said the above , I will concur that some people are just a**holes and should not be married.
jb

In defence of NTs, it's hard at times when you have to deal with someone being unemotive, or not as affection as you are used to. Especially when it occurs at times that appear unusual or out of the blue for the NT partner. It would be nice to not need this reassurance, but at times, you just do. Not because the person is needy, but because something has occurred to make them appear so.

Hi. Okay, this if my first post. I'm not sure if I quoted correctly. But I just want to put in a shout out for my Aspergian man. Just as with almost all qualities I can think of...there is a light and dark side. While my husband's Aspiness does create challenges, I also realize that many of the things I love about him are also part of his Aspy traits. I can ALWAYS count on him to be honest. When we have problems, we can discuss them very calmly. He is not moody. He wants to understand everything. As previously mentioned, he is extremely loyal. He does not judge others based on any moral beliefs, biases, or prejudices. He does not lie, manipulate, or cheat...and in a way this makes him seem so innocent...so pure in a way. Sometimes his sense of humor is super dorky...which is cute...and sometimes he is really hilarious...which is fun.

In short, he is the most stand-up guy I have ever met. I respect him more than I can say.

So, just wanted to agree with the previous post...there is A LOT to love about an Aspy.

I can't comment on relationships involving a man, either NT or Aspie, but I can say that thinking in terms of Asperger's and adapting accordingly seems to be rescuing my relationship. As I've posted before, in other threads, we think I'm an Aspie, and I've been trying to get properly assessed. Meanwhile, my girlfriend has some similar issues to mine, although for different reasons. It's the responsibility of both of us to help each other out in life and make the relationship work.

We'll have been together a dozen years by next August. After the ten year mark, we hit some challenges. I hadn't yet had reason to consider the Aspie explanation of things, so there wasn't the help that understanding things that way would provide. For some weird reason, maybe the presidential election, I had been going through an intensely emotionally difficult time, and this was hard on my girlfriend. That winter, when we had a long term house guest for the first time, I got pretty freaked out. It was nearly the end of us as a couple. Same thing the next time that guest came back in the summer. A visit of over a month turned out to be too long for me to handle at a time.

During that same period, my girlfriend seemed to be hitting a midlife crisis. At the same time, she'd survived a couple of layoffs at work and a promotion that gave her extra pay but also a lot more serious responsibility, so she was having panic attacks for the first time in her life and didn't even originally know what they were. Her mother's health began to fail, and she struggled with expectations / responsibilities versus a distinct lack of closeness between them and a bad family history, due to her father. Her father, btw, had also recently passed away, which meant trips out of state and sorting through things with one of her brothers.

Furthermore, relationships naturally need periodic reassessment and overhaul. Think of it as regular maintenance. There are minor times of it and major ones, and a major one can easily hit at the ten year mark, if it hasn't already. I'd heard about this before, and I got confirmation from friends as it happened. It's not necessarily the end, or even something to really be afraid of, but it can be difficult to deal with. Another way to think of it is as tilling the soil. It's just some hard work you have to occasionally do in order to keep the relationship rich and healthy. So, we had to do that. Yeah, these things do tend to hit all at once, don't they!

As far as how I handle things is concerned, it's up to me to learn to deal with the issues I'm coming to realize I have, now that I'm not just suppressing and denying things and judging myself as having a moral failing every time I make a mistake or don't understand something. For her part, my girlfriend is supporting my efforts and acknowledging my progress. Recognition of my efforts goes a long way for me, and I hope my expression of appreciation for her support is going a long way for her.

We also both try to keep in mind that neither of us is perfect, so when something goes wrong, it's not always the same person's fault, nor is it necessarily due to either person's lack of effort or concern. We're good to each other, and we both concede that we're sometimes a bit hard to live with. A healthy perspective is also something that goes a long way for both of us.

Neither of us are Christians, but I understand why that really helps other couples. For me, it's being a Basican. For others, it may be Buddhism or something else that helps. Even apart from any of that, a deep sense of respect, responsibility, and honor will do the job, especially if you have a deep commitment to learning and improving.

Yes, my relationship is an area of interest to me, as I'm sure you can tell by now. That's probably made a big difference. I wasn't ready to have a relationship until I was 32, so I'm glad I didn't manage to get into one before then. I've been with the same woman ever since, and I have no regrets. She's wonderful - kind, gentle, understanding intelligent, capable, and beautiful. (Have I bragged about her enough yet? ) I'll admit that the disruption to my life of breaking up and leaving would feel like a disaster to me, but that's not why I'm still with her. I lived alone before, and I could do it again. I moved in, I could move out. I also have to accept the possibility that I could outlive her (though I selfishly hope not to). I live in her house, and we're not expecting to marry, so I'd have to move if she passed away before me. So, the truth is that I'm here because I want to be with her and still believe she wants to be with me. As long as we still have that, I think we can face the challenges of life together and come out of whatever we go through stronger than we were before. That's always how it's been with us. We're such a great a couple partly because we simply make such a great team.

Wow. That turned out to be a much longer post than I'd intended to make...

I could not have said this better myself. This is exactly how I feel about my partner. Yes, there are times when I"m frustrated by his aspie traits, as i'm sure he's frustrated at me by some of my traits, but over all, what you just said Here to Learn, is exactly what I see in my partner.