How do you feel about gossip?
Socrates Triple Filter Test
In ancient Greece (469 - 399 BC), Socrates was widely lauded for his wisdom.
One day the great philosopher came upon an acquaintance who ran up to him excitedly and said, "Socrates, do you know what I just heard about one of your students?"
"Wait a moment," Socrates replied. "Before you tell me I'd like you to pass a little test. It's called the Triple Filter Test."
"Triple filter?" asked the acquaintance.
"That's right," Socrates continued. "Before you talk to me about my student let's take a moment to filter what you're going to say. The first filter is Truth. Have you made absolutely sure that what you are about to tell me is true?"
"No," the man said, "actually I just heard about it."
"All right," said Socrates. "So you don't really know if it's true or not. Now let's try the second filter, the filter of Goodness. Is what you are about to tell me about my student something good?"
"No, on the contrary ...".
"So," Socrates continued, "you want to tell me something bad about him, even though you're not certain it's true?".
The man shrugged, a little embarrassed. Socrates continued." You may still pass the test though, because there is a third filter - the filter of Usefulness. Is what you want to tell me about my student going to be useful to me?"
"No, not really..."
"Well," concluded Socrates, "if what you want to tell me is neither True nor Good nor even Useful, why tell it to me at all?"
The man was defeated and ashamed. This is the reason Socrates was a great philosopher and held in such high esteem.
That is the most awesome thing I've read all week. I love it.
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MONKEY
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Because there'd be very little to talk about if no one talked about other people. Not all gossip is negative, you could just tell a story about someone you know where something good happened to them and you can also get information on someone you like.
And at the same time it is quite satisfying when someone shares the same dislike for someone as me, then I can say what I want about them without offending anyone. ![]()
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CockneyRebel
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And at the same time it is quite satisfying when someone shares the same dislike for someone as me, then I can say what I want about them without offending anyone.
Mom told me as a child gossip is when you talk bad about someone when they aren't around.
Just the word gossip instils homicidal anger in me. I honestly feel like killing people that willingly partake in this mindless BS. I remember some woman was talking BS to my aunties friend then she told a "joke" to me which was "we're junkies" and I didn't see any tracks on her arms so I could only assume that she meant shes a "gossip junky". Felt like killing her then and there. I suppressed my homicidal rage by ignoring her and thinking about something else. God I hate gossip. I'm guessing gossip is one of those things that people on the spectrum are incapable of understanding. Maybe theres something I can't perceive and if I could it wouldn't seem so superficial and mindless.
I dunno, I dislike that whole twofaced thing that people usually use to cover how they lie. But sometimes taking an interest and staying on top of what's happening is also helpful. I've heard about discontentment I wouldn't have known about (and been able to take some steps to address them) through listening to what people were saying about what others thought. It's a very round about way of getting information, but in a few cases I never would have even known (because people always forget to tell me) important information I needed.
Heck, it's common where I live that people won't confront you about things that upset them or problems they had, they'll talk about it to their friends and it's generally assumed that the issue will reach you via gossip and small talk indirectly so that no one needs to risk losing face in a confrontation. This is a cultural difference, here if someone's bothered by you leaving your coffee mug on the table after meetings they won't confront you and tell you to your face. Expecting them to will get you absolutely frigging nowhere either since it's going directly against the cultural norm and makes you the aggressive freak who'll walk up to people and get in their face when they did everything right. But if you listen you will hear about it indirectly, and it won't be intended as an attack - at least not initially - just a heads up, and you are of course allowed to use the same channel to pass along your minor issues.
I will not though listen to people shittalk or spread vile lies, I'm interested in how people are doing, what they're up to, but stuff like the earlier mentioned gossiping about whether the man was gay or not - I don't put up with that kind of crap.
blackcat
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Heck, it's common where I live that people won't confront you about things that upset them or problems they had, they'll talk about it to their friends and it's generally assumed that the issue will reach you via gossip and small talk indirectly so that no one needs to risk losing face in a confrontation. This is a cultural difference, here if someone's bothered by you leaving your coffee mug on the table after meetings they won't confront you and tell you to your face. Expecting them to will get you absolutely frigging nowhere either since it's going directly against the cultural norm and makes you the aggressive freak who'll walk up to people and get in their face when they did everything right. But if you listen you will hear about it indirectly, and it won't be intended as an attack - at least not initially - just a heads up, and you are of course allowed to use the same channel to pass along your minor issues.
I will not though listen to people shittalk or spread vile lies, I'm interested in how people are doing, what they're up to, but stuff like the earlier mentioned gossiping about whether the man was gay or not - I don't put up with that kind of crap.
Ah, I would much prefer to be told directly than to hear it by way of gossip.. And, here, most of the gossip involves making sh*t up or wildly exaggerating the details or making fun of the person. That is what I have an issue with. But I may be overly sensitive since I have spent most of my life being made fun of and having people make things up behind my back. So when I see it happen to someone else...I get really pissed off. It's wrong, in my opinion.
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This passes the Socrates Triple Filter Test that LabPet posted. So that's good.
This doesn't pass the triple filter test.
Verdandi
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This doesn't pass the triple filter test.
Hmm, I once joined a mailing list where the membership was by complete and gratifying coincidence, badmouthing my ex.
So, hmm:
Filter 1: It was true. She was really like that. In fact, it was pretty validating to see other people say the same things about her that I had experienced before I left.
Filter 2: It was bad, but since it was accurate,
Filter 3: It was useful. To me for the aforementioned validation. I'm sure this had a point to the members of the mailing list as well (although it may have been little more than mockery.
So, if it's true, and it's useful, how does it not pass the triple filter test? Is it required to also be good?
This doesn't pass the triple filter test.
Hmm, I once joined a mailing list where the membership was by complete and gratifying coincidence, badmouthing my ex.
So, hmm:
Filter 1: It was true. She was really like that. In fact, it was pretty validating to see other people say the same things about her that I had experienced before I left.
Filter 2: It was bad, but since it was accurate,
Filter 3: It was useful. To me for the aforementioned validation. I'm sure this had a point to the members of the mailing list as well (although it may have been little more than mockery.
So, if it's true, and it's useful, how does it not pass the triple filter test? Is it required to also be good?
Yes, it is also required to be good. The 3 filters are True, Good and Useful. True and accurate are actually the same filter.
Hah, that ain't even an option here. I mean I prefer dealing with Americans, if they have a problem with how you're doing things they usually have no qualms about going up to you and saying it straight out. Meanwhile my fellow countrymen, it's just not something people do. Changing how an entire nation handles interpersonal confrontation and issues on your own, yeah, not gonna happen and I ain't stupid enough to kill my mental health trying like I've seen some with AS try (it never changes anything other than their own health). So it's either use the indirect gossip channels of communication as is intended, or be left out of the loop entirely and then be both shut out of any feedback and be unable to give any of your own. Ya gotta use what you have to work with, what I have to work with is a culture of passive aggressive indirect gossip in place of open discussion. It's imperfect, but better than being shut out.
Verdandi
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The three filters are pretty useless then, as it is now impossible to accurately and usefully report that some people are a**holes without violating a nebulous principle. Are you sure you understand this correctly? Perhaps the point is that the information needs to be true, good, or useful, or a combination of the three.
I didn't say anything that implied I thought true and accurate were different filters. I said that "It was bad but since it was accurate" which was referring back to the first filter.
