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OJani
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12 May 2011, 2:40 am

The-Raven wrote:
At that time in the victorian ages it was fashionable to show how rich people were different in kind to the poor and would keep their values/character even in different surroundings thus he was genteel. It was the same theme in robinson crusoe and several books about rich people swapping with their identical peasant counterpart, they all kept their posh values, in contrast Marx said people were a product of their surroundings and upbringing.

This is a point I've met first here, but it certainly makes sense. I wish more people would be like those who have good inner (innate?) moral, like his character. And, if it requires being an Aspie, so be it! ;) I think I'm more with Marx on this subject, but not totally.

The-Raven wrote:
Its interesting as it is a key thing with aspies that they keep their character the same independent of their surroundings where as NTs are more flexible and malleable so I can see why you think that, but in this case Im sure its a product of the fashion for individualism and superiority/difference of class.

Feeling of "Aha". Although, I'm a bit skeptical about Dickens intending to imply Oliver was noble because he had noble roots, but, I may be wrong. See Charley Bates or Nancy.



OJani
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12 May 2011, 2:35 pm

jocli wrote:
Actually almost the same thing happened to me with a book..when I was about 11 or 12 there were 2 shelves of books at the back of the classroom; they were in no particular order.(This was 6th grade.) One day I found a paperback w/an interesting title... To kill A Mockingbird by Harper Lee. I COULD NOT PUT IT DOWN. Scout, Jem & Dill were like me, my brother, & a girl who lived down the street from us...we were about the same age as them & it was a small town.

A few yrs later when I saw the movie everybody looked exactly as I had pictured them. Now when I read the book I hear the voices of Gregory Peck, Mary Badham, etc., as their characters.

This coincidence is charming. I've found that this book is available in translation, and given its very admirable message, I've put it on my list to read.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who experiences such deep empathy toward fictional characters from novels.

Thank you and all of the others sharing their ideas and opinions on the topic's question the comfort I received.



buryuntime
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12 May 2011, 3:05 pm

Your posting style reminds me of Oliver Twist. :)



OJani
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12 May 2011, 3:22 pm

buryuntime wrote:
Your posting style reminds me of Oliver Twist. :)

Thanks! :wink:



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 May 2011, 4:04 pm

Oliver Twist was Charles Dickens's idea of Victorian goodness based on the concept of noble birth. He was trying to appeal to the middle class who had this belief those of noble birth were good, of low birth, evil and these were innate characteristics there at conception.
His last name "Twist" refers to the incredible twists of fate that dot Oliver's life.
I haven't read Dickens intended this protagonist to be interpreted autistic.



Callista
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12 May 2011, 6:21 pm

I think Oliver Twist isn't autistic so much as a stand-in for the reader.

Back when Dickens wrote that novel, it was really in fashion to write books like that--where the main character was little more than a viewpoint for the reader to look into the story, with not that much personality of his own, a person to whom things happen rather than someone who drives the story. He's more of a vehicle for storytelling than a true protagonist.

A modern (and much less well-written) example of such a character would be Bella from Twilight, who also has little personality of her own and serves primarily as a reader stand-in. The difference between Twilight and Oliver Twist, of course, is that the world of Oliver Twist is one worth exploring.


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OJani
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13 May 2011, 8:52 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Oliver Twist was Charles Dickens's idea of Victorian goodness based on the concept of noble birth. He was trying to appeal to the middle class who had this belief those of noble birth were good, of low birth, evil and these were innate characteristics there at conception.
His last name "Twist" refers to the incredible twists of fate that dot Oliver's life.
I haven't read Dickens intended this protagonist to be interpreted autistic.

Yes, his name, "Twist" is rather disadvantageous for him. Twist, other that unexpected change, also means "to screw" and "dishonorable", if I get it well.

I'm not entirely see why Dickens would have made Oliver an example of Victorian goodness based on the concept of noble birth. Characters, like Charley Bates or even Nancy, had the definite potential being good, and Dickens himself "wished to show, in little Oliver, the principle of Good surviving trough every adverse circumstance, and triumphing at last".

The incredible twists in Oliver's life are elements of a tale which are even more incredulous than the implacable morality of his. Though, I see how Dickens could use the ply of a lost noble son to appeal for his audience, who, according to Angus Wilson, was the "vast illiterate early Victorian public, the mob whom he always, perhaps rightly, feared." Maybe, if Oliver had been initially placed in the dirtiest part of London, as the aforementioned two characters, he wouldn't have been as immune to crime. He would have been much like Charley, reaching good at the ending.



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13 May 2011, 9:03 am

Oliver Twist is imaginary. Thus, the topic's primary question is superfluous.