Ok, I'm confused. Can you explain this?

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I love this thread. I totally understand how you feel about these tests. I failed one for Wallmart. I tend to overthink them too.

I imagine that receiving an email from an applicant saying that they could not complete the application process would mean an instant no from a company. It is to do with following directions and not questioning authority. As has been said before companies want an employee that will just get on with job. If the prospective employee throws up a challenge even before the interview then the company is quite right to think, oh, no I don't think we can work with this person. People do not like to be told that they are doing the wrong thing. This goes in every avenue of life. A company will not change for the employee, the employee has to adapt to the company. That's just life.

Look on the bright side, this may mean that you would have been unhappy working for them and something better is waiting for you just around the corner.

I think there is a moral reason to follow speeding laws, unless you feel comfortable with the idea of running someone over as a result of travelling 40mph in a 30 zone.

The trick to that one is to answer it truthfully but then always add on a sentence that shows how this "worst quality" can actually be a virtue when the situation is right. The message this gives them is that if they find the right niche for you, you will be awesome.

My truthful answer to that was "I don't multi-task very well". The positive spin add-on was "I do my best work focusing on a single project and seeing it through to its' completion."

The positive spin add-on tells the employer what you perceive your strength as. Your strength is often the flip-side of your weakness. If enough people are honest about this (with a positive spin add-on, which saves the employer the work of trying to figure out where to assign you), the employer can build a really good work team by having strengths and weaknesses complement. Get some people who say they don't multi-task well but focus on single projects and pair them with somebody who says "I have a hard time committing to a single project" with positive spin add-on "I do my best work juggling several projects at once" and the project juggler can co-ordinate the focused efforts of the single-taskers.

Some people answer this honestly (and it's from them that I learned the concept of the positive spin add-on) but unfortunately I think many people give what they think is a desired answer of "I'm a workaholic" which is something you should only say if it's true.

There is a saying that a weed is a flower growing in the wrong place. The corollary here is that a weakness is a strength assigned to the wrong place. When you answer this question truthfully but with positive spin add-on, you tell the employer where to assign you to get best work.

Another example:

A says, "I get lonely if I'm away from people too long"....."I do my best work meeting new people and bouncing ideas off them".


B says, "I get overwhelmed around a lot of people"....."I do my best work alone or in a small group that I know well."

Now they know to hire A and send him out as the public rep for the company at trade shows and hire B and put him in a quiet area with a small team or working alone.


So be honest about your "worst quality" but always add the "I do my best work when..." qualifier that is its' opposite.

I've done loads of online job applications and filled out tons of 'tests' like that. Before I filled them in I always googled to find out what exactly they were testing for and how the test was designed/validated and what the most desirable answers would be. Like it or not, these tests ARE an accurate way for large companies to select people based on how likely they are to 'fit in' and 'get on' and cause the company the minimum of trouble. And also like it or not, they usually have inbuilt checks that will flag up people who are just 'faking it' and ticking the boxes they think the company wants them to tick. (But if you're smart enough to learn how to figure out what they're looking for and willing to do the research, you can still beat them!)

The tests aren't always about how you fit in with other people, some of them are designed to highlight risk-takers who don't always follow the rules. Some companies prefer to weed out those people cause statistically they are more likely to do something silly that costs the company money. Examples of that are statements like 'I am more imaginative than others' or 'I like to make descisions quickly' and 'It is important to support those in authority' or 'I always admit my mistakes'. (To be a good solid risk free worker, the first two you should disagree with, the last two you should agree with.) The problem is that some companies actually WANT imaginative risk takers and others don't, so you have to figure that out too.

The ones about honesty are easy to figure out. They don't want people who are likely to steal from the company. Agreeing with statements like 'I can always see ways that other people could break the rules and get away with it' will suggest that you are devious enough to try to think of ways to actually break the rules yourself. Agreeing with statements like 'People who are caught stealing at work should always be fired' will suggest that you yourself are unlikely to steal at work.

True/false questions about weird statements are difficult cause like you say there is never one obvious 'correct' answer and it's sometimes hard to see what they're really trying to find out about you. I've never done tests like that so haven't really spent much time figuring them out, but most of them use pretty standard statements so you could probably find the 'correct' answers online. Just google 'psychometric testing' and you'll find a ton of information.

The questions where you have to tick on a scale of 1-9 to show how strongly you agree or disagree with a statement are easier, cause you can usually figure out whether you're supposed to agree or disagree. And apparently the people who set these tests prefer to see ticks just either side of the middle, not very strongly at either end, as that indicates to them someone who sees issues in black and white, which they don't like. So if you disagree, you'd tick 2 or 3, not 1. And if you agree you'd tick 7 or 8, not 9.

If you can't figure these tests out or if lying on them is difficult for you to do, you could always seek out a well balanced and nice NT person to fill them in for you or to sit with you and help you while you're online filling them in yourself. That would be the sneaky way to go about it. If you want to be completely honest, you should contact the company before you start the test and inform them you have a 'disability' that will require some adjustments to be made. Most companies will actually start out by saying that to you before you start the test anyway. It's up to you whether you do or not I suppose.

But like some people have said, if you can't do their test, chances are you wouldn't be happy working at the company anyway. These tests are there to help potential employees too. Companies don't want to spend a lot of money recruiting people who are going to be unhappy and leave the job. It's obviously not completely altruistic on their part (cause it IS about money) but they DO want to find people who will enjoy their job and be happy doing it. That's a win-win situation for them. Not all companies are just about finding little corporate drones to stick in boxes...

Yes but that doesn't answer my question

I understand that these are test designed to determine my personality. I understand that I should have filled out the questionnaire if I wanted the interview as not to make waves. I understand that there are 'right' answers that give the employer the information they want to hear. I understand that lying and giving false answers is necessary to get past these tests. And I know how to chose the false answers in a way which the HR apartment will approve of. That's not what I am confused about.

My confusion is simply WHY would HR departments give this test? They have to know that any person with intelligence is aware that these tests are a trap and that there are right/wrong answers from the company perspective. And they have to know that any person with intelligence will answer these questions falsely in such a way as to tell HR what they want to hear. And as such, they have to know that the test results will be invalid because anybody with any intelligence will game the test.

So why does HR make people do these tests if they know that what they will get is invalid at best, and manipulative at worst? The only way these tests will work is if the person doesn't realize its a trap and answers honestly, but why would they hire engineers like that?

I'm not confused about how I should answer or what I should answer if I want the job. I am confused about why this is a requirement. I just can't figure out why the HR department thinks these tests are at all helpful.

Ummm.... because for Neurotypical people in the US culture (THE MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION) the tests DO work. You are assuming that just because you think one way that everyone does.

BAD move.... And a little humiltiy will go a LONG way in your overall success in life btw.

If you know how to play the game, make the moves to play and see how it plays out. You can always make options happen (quit for example) if you chose to play. If you refuse to play or try, then the door is shut for you and you have no options. That is the worst scenario IMHO.

Actually, you may not know. The HR department doesn't look at the individual answers; they just let some analysis company analyze them. That company may be specialized enough that they know how to weed out people gaming the test.


I am unconvinced that you're correct about that. But, suppose you are. In that case, the test serves as an intelligence test. Intelligence is a useful trait in almost any job. That's a good reason in itself for HR to give the test.

Yup, that's pretty much correct. Three of the last four series of tests I had to do were run by the same company. Nothing to do with the HR department of the companies I was applying to. And they explicitly stated in the preamble before the test that they set up the test in such a way as to highlight 'gamers' and false answers. Although I do think that that may be a small exaggeration designed to scare people into not trying to choose false answers though, as I always manage to 'pass' these tests.

As to why companies set these tests, kfisherx is right, they tend to work. As to why you should have to do them even though you're utterly convinced they are pointless and illogical, well, welcome to the world of work. Until you are the boss, you are often going to be required to do things that either APPEAR pointless and illogical to you as you are lacking some necessary information to understand the validity of them, or that in actual fact ARE pointless and illogical. Your job is not to tell people this, it is to just do the thing you're being asked to do. Also, sometimes people will want you to do something that you think will be pointless, and their object in asking you to do it is simply to get concrete proof that it really IS pointless.

The answer to 1: Yes. people only follow rules due to the repercussions of not following them. That is not to say that people would or would not take a different action if the rule was not present. But the question is not concerned with that. It asks if they follow the rule. This means that there is a rule, and again it says follow the rule, this means the question isn't about breaking rules, or what actions people would take if there were not a rule. But very explicitly why someone would follow a rule. And the only reason someone follows a rule is to avoid the consequence of not following it. People follow rules...fear consequences. We could debate whether avoiding a consequence is truly equitable to the emotional reaction of fear. But...it is likely that is it's implied meaning.

So a full logical analysis of this question nets an answer of: Yes

The answer to 2: Yes. There is no reason to lie, except to get what one wants. Lying is a tool of manipulation towards the goal of control. One could make a case for a rather extreme case that you could theoretically lie to get something you don't want. But it would be highly implausible. So, for most people, lying is a method of attaining a goal.

A full logical analysis of this question too, is: Yes

The answer to 3: No. There is no preference of any work arrangement over any other work arrangement. The wording here is asking if you prefer one more than the other. So, if you do not prefer either option at all, then you cannot prefer one over the other. I take it as asking if you have a preference. But, there is not any reason to have one. Nothing relevant is defined, so no preference could exist. Rational preference...anyway.

This one too then, is logically answerable: No

They have logical answers. You are likely agitated you had to even take the test. I interpreted your response as hostile, and indignant. I would have responded similarly when I was younger, less in touch with my emotional state. You are agitated and frustrated by this test. Likely insulted by such a basic and simple screening method which is beneath you. And you are masking it in a flourish of rational looking prose. Or at least....that's what it looks like to me.

I despise tests like that, I've never had one that I passed.

I had to take one of these tests for a service station one time, and one of the questions that has always stuck with me is, "When you are watching a movie, do you tend to sympathize with the bad guy?"

Seriously?? Who sides with the bad guy??

I had to take one of these tests online for an application I sent in for UPS, only instead of two answers there were five possible -- "not at all like me," "somewhat not like me," "undecided," "somewhat like me," and "very much like me." I think I failed it, too. I tried to give the answers I thought they wanted -- when it asked if I needed a nap after work I said "somewhat not like me," for instance, but when it asked questions like "did you ever lie to your parents as a child" I figured they wanted an honest answer -- I mean, what child doesn't from time to time? Same thing for "have you ever considered doing something you knew you shouldn't?" Again, who hasn't been tempted -- even briefly -- to do something they knew wasn't allowed? I certainly wouldn't hire someone daft or dishonest enough to say they never had.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get information from?

I'm sorry but I see a problem with your response. Here is why.

Here are the definitions of the word majority.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/majority

I'm concentrating on definition on definition number one which is the greater part or number; the number larger than half the total ( opposed to minority): the majority of the population. Maybe I have the wrong definition I am going by but by what this definition says the majority can be considered 51% of the population of our sample space. This was comfirmed in political science classes I have taken. By the way, I know of a couple of NTs who have had major problems with these tests. One of them was my worktec counselor.



Why do you believe that he is assuming that just because he thinks one way everyone else does? How exactly do you draw this conclusion?



1. How do you know that this will always be the case?
2. How exactly does one show show humility? If you do not mind, please be more specific.
3. What exactly is life?
4. What exactly is considered success? Money? Power? Respect? This is what Jay-Z the rapper promotes as the key to life. There are rappers who promote irresponsibility and are irresponsibile. Some have been to prison and do drugs. Yet, they still have millions. Jay-Z, in one of his rap songs says that I can kill if I want to kill and it is ok. Guess what? He is making millions and is successful? This man does not seem to show any humility whatsoever and I don't believe he ever has shown humility.
5. IMHO, you're just giving soundbites. You're just dishing out the same phrases that the advocates for self-responsibility dish out such as life is not fair, you're entitled to nothing, yadda, yadda, yadda. I'm always told to get a positive attitude. I'm always told to have gratitude. I'm always told to be myself. I'm sorry but these phrases don't tell me anything. IMHO, These phrases are vapid and are devoid of any substance whatsoever.

6. If the American People's beliefs are the epitome of perfection then why aren't they open to discussion, debate, challenge, or even clarification? Couldn't life not be fair because everyone accepts it that way and sees the futility in changing it and because everyone accepts that life is not fair it is futile to change it? It seems like we have a chicken or the egg problem here.



Yup, the rappers know how to play it well. Jay-Z can promote immorality and he has money coming out of his pockets. They can be as irriresponsible as they want and they are still rich and successful. Maybe I'm missing something here. Some say Barak Obama is narcisstic and has an extreme sense of entitlement. I believe there are other CEOs who may be narcisstic as well and have an extreme sense of entitlement. More than likely they're prideful as well. If this is all true then isn't it possible for those with extreme pride, extreme sense of entitlement and narccistic can obtain wealth, power and success? It seems like some of those who are truly succssful, powerful, and rich never truly grew up and never lost their pride.

What about the guy who is a hermit and kind to he does encounter? He also lives in a small shack in the woods. He is very happy with his life and has no complaints. One of the few possessions he does have is a bible he consistently reads every day. What exactly is considered success in life?

True, there are many definitions of 'success in life'. However the original poster did not express a desire to be either a millionaire rap artist or a shack dwelling hermit. He expressed a desire to obtain a job that related to his qualification in mechanical engineering, which kind of narrows down what he would define 'success in life' as, and also how he should act in order to achieve his goals.

What are the answers they want to hear then? And how do they reflect on you? E.g. I think most people lies, but I don't. If I say people lies does it sound I am a liar as well?

No-one involved in sending you that test has or will ever have any interest in evaluating whether it is useful. They wouldn't think to ask.