Is there any research on ASD with ADHD

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I think these things need to be further studied and all studies examined for validity. Considering the "interesting" ideas in the minds of many clinicians and researchers, I don't trust them to fail to confuse the two based on outwards behaviors, Re: the autism vs. Lucky Charms soup of neurological/psychological conditions diagnostic debacle that often ensues for both children and adults.

I am about 99% sure I know what this is, but my ability to connect what I know to what you said is about 0%. Could you restate that to clarify?

My first diagnosis was HD, hyperactivity disorder, and my mother says I was not like children without it. She says my activity level was constant. Other children have energy and need bursts of activity but they get tired and wind down. I never got tired. I was full of energy 24/7 I had terrible insomnia. It goes beyond the activity level and energy of kids without ADHD. Not all kids experience it and it should not be confused with normal energy levels.

Thanks for this clarification.

I probably should have mentioned that one of the frustrating trivializing tendencies in discussions about ADHD is that people suggest that ADHD traits are typical childhood traits when they are not actually so. It may be harder to distinguish at an early age, but as children with ADHD age, the developmental gap increases, just as with autistic spectrum disorders.

I distinctly remember staying at my Aunt and Uncle's during childhood. My cousins were asleep by ten thirty p m. Two thirty a m would pass, I would still be laying there wide awake wishing I could get up and draw or read, maybe roam the house like I was accustomed to doing while home. Four o'clock would come and go, I'd still be awake. I finally found sleep before five but would be wide awake and out of bed by seven thirty while my cousins, who were both very close to my age, were still snoring. My Aunt never wanted to be up before nine a m. I was always the last to fall asleep and the first to wake up. Fortunately, the older I got, the more I slept. Now my energy levels are languid and I want some of my HD back!

My point is, the difference between my cousins' and my energy levels were very pronounced.

Thanks its a lot, though I think most of this research doesn't really focus on the nature of it.
I have to look through it a bit more. Response to medication and variation in ADHD traits and diagnosed categories are interesting.

This looks quite interesting.

Also this kind of research:


What I think (But I am not sure) is that ADHD, represent different conditions, and that ADHD with ASD is not the typical one, and you should not treat it as the same.

Also, since there is such a big overlap, one should question if the diagnostic criteria are really orthogonal (That traits from the other conditions doesn't influence the diagnosis)

Could you elaborate on the basis for this?

I'm not sure what you mean by "ADHD represent different conditions."



This was part of the assumption when the DSM-IV was written, but in the time since, it has been determined that autistic people who fit the criteria for ADHD often benefit from stimulant medication - that is, from typical ADHD treatments. In other words, clinical research is actually moving away from what you just said.

Your answer is not really relevant to this part of the post. One example of orthogonality is following a discussion and speaking at the appropriate places. That can be both a sluggish ADHD brain (sluggishness at least) and/or understanding the situation socially. So ADHD could "push" somebody into being diagnosed as ASD.

Though when you look at descriptions of NVLD and ASD, it is almost the opposite of ADHD, and somebody with ADHD should NOT fit the criteria - still more reason to think about what you are looking at.

This also means that ADHD and ASD is probably not "on a spectrum".

I will try to respond on the first part later.

It was actually completely relevant - the assumption when the DSM-IV was written was that autistic children who fit the criteria for ADHD did so because some element of their autism mimicked ADHD, not because they actually had ADHD, thus no one who had an ASD should be diagnosed with ADHD. With research this was determined to not be the best practice.



This is an assumption I've seen others make, although I am not sure how you can look at the criteria themselves and determine that they are almost the opposite of each other.

Something I've noticed with myself and I've heard from others here on the forum as well as parents who have children diagnosed with both ADHD and an ASD, is that with some (not all) of us, treating ADHD actually seems to make us more autistic, once the inattentive and H/I symptoms are moderated.



I don't really have an opinion either way, but I am not sure your conclusion follows.

I still wonder what your statement about NVLD representing "quintessential autism" is supposed to mean.

I'm not sure what the point is, actually, of debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin - or whether someone with an ASD can truly have ADHD - when there are people who are diagnosed with both, who live with the symptoms of both and meet the criteria for both in the conversation.

There is no point in trying to apply logic to demonstrate that something which already happens should not be possible. It's possible, it happens, it's been demonstrated in research and there are multiple people on this forum who live with it. The question is well beyond "is this even possible?"

Dr amen has different types "conditions" based on brainscans, these correlates to different symptoms and different treatments:

http://www.amenclinics.com/clinics/information/ways-we-can-help/adhd-add/

In addition, I think you can also talk about Cerebellar ADHD.




That would be subtype "Overfocused ADD" in Dr Amens list. Of course it can also be Classic ADHD, but because you have less Serotonin/more OCD/more depression the side-effects are stronger.

IMHO it might also be an issue about tensions in the body (stimulants causing more of it).


(I am aware that it seems most data are the opposite of what I say, that ADHD with Dyslexia for example seems to be quite similar to pure "ADHD")

N/A, A/A , and prisons are full of ADHD'ers. Solo mums and playboy batchelors

Not many aspies, me thinks

Okay. I am skeptical of Dr. Amen's claims and techniques. As far as I know, his findings haven't been replicated elsewhere.



I don't quite get what you're suggesting here - are you suggesting that there is no autism at all or are you suggesting that one of Dr. Amen's subtypes fit best in addition to autism?

I know I don't have OCD.

If I had been diagnosed with an ASD instead of HD I might have gotten the services I needed. My problems were more complex than my mother realized. Ritalin doses did not address the repetitive behaviors and obsessiveness. I also had problems processing information, spoken and written, at times. Directions were a nightmare. These issues were neglected throughout my youth.

I suspect that ADHD and AS are quite connected. Whether they are on the same "spectrum" or not, I have no idea. But I know that I am someone with ADHD who also shares many traits in common with those on the spectrum. ADHD meds bring out my autistic traits, for example. I don't think this is all too uncommon.

Everyone I've known who is on the spectrum has some problems with executive functions, which are at the core of ADHD, be it problems with impulsive behavior, time management, or attentional problems. That isn't to say that everyone who is on the spectrum has ADHD.

Similarly, I've known people with just ADHD who do not seem to have much or any social impairment. My dad is a good example. He has some autistic traits. For example, he has issues with theory of mind, has strong "special interests" (his research) that he loves to talk about, etc... but he is very outgoing and social and well-liked. He loves to be around people and makes new friends wherever he goes.

What I'm trying to get at, though, is that ADHD and AS are not mutually exclusive nor are they mutually inclusive. There does indeed seem to be a lot of overlap.

I've read Dr. Daniel Amen's books and seen his PBS specials, and honestly his "different types of ADHD" seem like co-morbid psychiatric diagnoses than distinct forms of ADHD.

Plus, there are some professionals that disagree with Dr. Amen's proposal.