my parents hid my aspergers from me

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trenchcoatguy
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30 Jul 2011, 5:26 am

dougn wrote:

trenchcoatguy wrote:

can you find me proof of its existence outside the US?

http://apps.who.int/classifications/app ... 90.htm+f90

Quote:

F90.0 Disturbance of activity and attention
Attention deficit:
· disorder with hyperactivity
· hyperactivity disorder
· syndrome with hyperactivity

It is farcical for you to claim that ADHD "isn't real" because in some countries the terminology is slightly different.

You could much more plausibly argue that the diagnostic criteria used in the US are overly broad and thus it is overdiagnosed there, than that the entire disorder is a scam.

(By the way, by definition, if the criteria used outside the US simply exclude a subset of those who would be diagnosed in the US, this means many of the ADHD diagnoses in the US are actually valid, and would be made outside the US, too. By saying that it "isn't real" you are denying the existence of the difficulties suffered by all people diagnosed with ADHD, not just ones who have been incorrectly diagnosed.)

Actually that the diagnostics in the US are overly broad thus it is overdiagnosed here is exactly what ive been claiming. I am saying that the disorder hyperkinesis has been reformed to fit a broader group as a scam to sell pharmaceuticals in the US. And i dont feel it is wrong to say something isnt real when it is mistranslated in such a way, ADD is a spinoff of another condition. And it really didnt exist 100 years ago.

dougn
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30 Jul 2011, 5:29 am

trenchcoatguy wrote:

Actually that the diagnostics in the US are overly broad thus it is overdiagnosed here is exactly what ive been claiming.

Then you should have said that in the first place.

trenchcoatguy wrote:

And it really didnt exist 100 years ago.

You realize that autism didn't "exist" 100 years ago either, right?

trenchcoatguy
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30 Jul 2011, 5:33 am

dougn wrote:

trenchcoatguy wrote:

Actually that the diagnostics in the US are overly broad thus it is overdiagnosed here is exactly what ive been claiming.

Then you should have said that in the first place.

trenchcoatguy wrote:

And it really didnt exist 100 years ago.

You realize that autism didn't "exist" 100 years ago either, right?

Yes i am aware that autism did not exist but you were still diagnosed if you were low functioning, the diagnosis was just a bit different. You just got the crazy stamp and got put in cold water or something. And saying that i am discounting the plights of the people who have recieved that diagnosis is incorrect, i recieved that diagnosis and i feel it affected me strongly. I found myself using my diagnosis as somewhat of an excuse. It also led to my medication.

trenchcoatguy
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30 Jul 2011, 5:41 am

dougn wrote:

trenchcoatguy wrote:

My intention was certainly not to be offensive, and i feel you have entirely misunderstood what sociology is if you believe it is an unrelated field

I didn't expect that you meant to be offensive. Most people who say things like "ADHD doesn't exist" probably don't mean to be offensive. However, it is. It's offensive to people with ADHD to say that they have been sold a bill of goods by a bunch of unscrupulous drug companies and their pseudoscientist lackeys and that their very real difficulties don't exist.

And I know what sociology is and I didn't say it was unrelated, I said it was not the field being discussed. Nevertheless, when making pronouncements about a neurological disorder, it is probably best to consider the opinions of people who study fields including neurology as well as those of sociologists.

You are taking as gospel the opinion of a single sociologist that a neurological disorder with which millions of people have been diagnosed is a scam concocted to sell drugs. Does that not strike you as a bit off? Shouldn't you at least do some more research before forming such a firm opinion?

you know i started this debate here entirely because my belief is not so firm and i wanted to hear the opposing opinions of one such as yourself and see factual evidence of the other side. Also my sociologist was a neurologist and was going entirely off of the studies of other sociologists and neurologists. And offensive to people with ADD.... i received suc a severe diagnosis of ADD that i was almost put in "special" school. I know the plights very VERY well, and i feel i was cheated.

dougn
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30 Jul 2011, 6:48 am

trenchcoatguy wrote:

If the fact that only people with very severe ADHD-like symptoms would have been diagnosed with anything 100 years ago means ADHD "isn't real" then shouldn't the fact that only people with very severe autism-like symptoms would have been diagnosed with anything 100 years ago mean autism isn't real, too?

trenchcoatguy wrote:

you know i started this debate here entirely because my belief is not so firm and i wanted to hear the opposing opinions of one such as yourself and see factual evidence of the other side.

I'm glad you did, but the way you've been phrasing things gives the impression that your belief is very firm, and seems to be causing a lot of misunderstandings.

A good way to start a constructive debate might be to say something like this:

"My sociology professor, who is also a neurologist, believes ADHD is very overdiagnosed in the US because drug companies have influenced the diagnostic criteria to be overly broad in order to sell drugs."

A much less good way is to say something like this:

"ADHD isn't real."

trenchcoatguy wrote:

And offensive to people with ADD.... i received suc a severe diagnosis of ADD that i was almost put in "special" school. I know the plights very VERY well, and i feel i was cheated.

But you're saying you don't have ADHD. I understand that being erroneously diagnosed with something can be a very traumatic experience (I have plenty of experience with incorrect diagnoses myself). However, I think when people make statements such as, "ADHD isn't real," that is offensive to people who do have ADHD, since it means the difficulties that they experience, that are described by ADHD, aren't real.

You have to understand that on one side of this debate you may have people who want as many people as possible diagnosed with ADHD so they can sell as many drugs as possible but on the opposite side you have people who want no one diagnosed with ADHD, who say that people with ADHD are just bad/lazy/stupid/poorly disciplined/working the system/whatever. Probably neither of these positions is correct, but I can say with absolute certainty that the second one isn't and that it's extremely offensive to people with ADHD and should be extremely offensive to all people with disabilities, especially invisible disabilities like autism spectrum disorders. And as people with autism, many of the same people are saying the same exact things about us. And when you say something like, "ADHD isn't real," you appear to be supporting that position, even if you don't mean to.

In other words, if you don't want to offend people, choose your words more carefully and make it clearer just what you mean.

Todesking
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30 Jul 2011, 9:38 am

YourMother wrote:

My parents hid it from me too. Unfortunately one of my teachers let it slip (to the whole class, in my absence) when I was about 14.

My first day of high school we were told to go to the this one wall so we could find these lists that had our names on them and our home room number. To my horror next to my name and homeroom number was the letters ICAP which was the letters for the special education students. Someone asked me what those letters stood for so I said I don't know but some a**hole behind me yelled out "He's in ret*d classes" So I tore the list down but everyone seemed to know after that making life a living hell for my freshman and sophmore years.

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SmallFruitSong
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30 Jul 2011, 10:25 am

OT, but this quote is gold.

Quote:

I have been diagnosed with ADD, or ADHD im not sure i wasn't paying attention when the doctor told me

Also, yes, ADHD exists in other countries outside of the USA.

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CockneyRebel
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30 Jul 2011, 10:47 am

I was diagnosed with "Mild Autistic Tendencies" which would be AS today at the age of 5. My parents kept it a secret from me until I was 15 years old. The thing that really pissed me off is that my dad told my sister about it, before my mum told me. I'm the one who's autistic, so I should have been the first one to find out and not my sister. They also put limits to what they expected me to grow up to be and what they thought that I could and could not do. My dad insisted that I go into an Adult Special Education work experience programme against my will. I went into that programme for two years, only to be doing the simplest tasks working in a factory for three years before I broke down. My mum made it very clear to me when I was 23 that she wanted me to grow up to be like the average tough, bitchy NT female and she compared me to Mick Avory in a very taunting manner. I know she was telling the truth, but you don't show your honesty with a sneer.

Twenty six years later, I'm a dustman on the litter crew for a landscaping company 2-5 mornings a week for 2 hours a day and I collect empty cans and bottles on the mornings that I'm not working. Not tow big garbage bags but 4 small grocery bags as I need to be fair to the homeless as well.

I don't wish to be cured of my AS, nor do I think that autistics should have the cure forced upon them if they don't wish to be cured. I think that parents and particularly NT parents need to be cured of their ignorance so that their autistic offspring can reach their highest potential possible - something I didn't have the opportunity to do.

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Marcia
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30 Jul 2011, 12:38 pm

SmallFruitSong wrote:

OT, but this quote is gold.

Quote:

I have been diagnosed with ADD, or ADHD im not sure i wasn't paying attention when the doctor told me

Also, yes, ADHD exists in other countries outside of the USA.

Yes, that quote is brilliant. If it weren't for the universally acknowledged truth that Americans don't do irony I might have thought it was deliberately comedic.

If the OP simply looked up ADHD on Wikipedia s/he would see references to its global prevalence which, given that the US isn't the world, suggests that it's not just a US thing. In addition, DSM is used throughout the world, not just in the US and the World Health Organisation's ICD includes references to AD(H)D under a differently worded heading.

AshleyT
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30 Jul 2011, 2:49 pm

trenchcoatguy wrote:

I wasn't told until i was almost 19. I am not entirely sure how i feel about it. I understand that they didn't want me to develop a sense of learned helplessness but i still feel i had a right to know. My entire childhood made sense to me all of the sudden. My father tore up the documentation of my diagnosis and is still completely in denial. It just pained him to much to have a mentally deficient son. I remember thinking over and over again throughout my life, "am i ret*d and everyone is hiding it from me?" I remember seeing how the down syndrome children were treated and spoken to in a way where they aren't even aware they are different. I noticed similarities in how i was spoken too. I was put on medication for years... all i can say about medicating your children is DONT if you can go without it in any way DONT medicate your children. Medication made me completely psychotic during the period i was medicated. The medications i was given robbed e of my personality and robbed me of my morality. I was an unfeeling zombie for years, and it was the meds. The medication made me behave in such a way that it was easy for everyone to say i was crazy, and the behaviors the medication caused led to further diagnosis and guess what... more medication. One day i realized that i had just spent several years fighting psychotic urges that seemed to be coming from an outside force, i stopped taking my medication. Suddenly i was an intelligent young man. I go to college for psychology and sociology and i am far more intelligent than either of my parents. I am still very socially awkward though. In college sociology i learned about something called the medicalization of deviance. The theory goes as such, doctors and the overall medical industry are pushed by pharmaceutical companies too diagnose more and more behavioral disorders and something physiological and genetic, once the problem is diagnosed as something you cannot face because it is part of your genetics they sell you a cure or treatment. The pharmaceutical industry largely relies on this. And overall if you look at accurate unbiased statistics on the effectiveness of medication, particularly anti-psychotics, and psychotropics, you find they don't work hardly at all. So hopping your child up on drugs that are generally similar chemical compounds to meth (for example: Ceroquil, Ridalin, Adderal) is not the solution except in particular extreme cases. Oh and ADD isn't real. You generally dont get diagnosed with ADD unless you are in America. Other countries have Hyperkinesis for which the behavioral effects are much more severe than what has been diagnosed as the standard behavioral effects of ADD. ADD is diagnosed purely behaviorally, there is no provable physical characteristics of ADD. ADD is generally diagnosed when children don't pay attention in school. This is what was once called being a child, what child in their right mind could happily pay attention to school, kids want to play. If your child wont calm down and stop running in circles, take them to the park or beach to run. ADD is generally a just a lack of stimulation resulting in children who desperately need to play. It is often just a result of the lazy parenting that has become common place in the modern day. It is just easier to feed your children sedatives than to take them out three times a day. The amount of activity required to raise a happy child is simply considered too much of a bother in the modern day.

Sorry for getting off topic im prone to ranting.

I'm in the UK and was diagnosed. My mum was diagnosed. Many kids i worked with have been diagnosed with ADD.

There are many other factors to ADD than just 'not paying attention in school'.

I was constantly frustrated at myself, my inability to remember items, get to lectures with the wrong days stuff, late to exams, job interviews, inability to get up in the mornings, inability to sleep, nocturnal sleeping (apparently common with ad(h)d), making stupid mistakes in all my maths and getting 2-3 grades lower because of this, always getting yelled at by teachers because my 'work is a mess and i don't put in any effort' when i was trying as hard as i could.

Inability to learn from lectures, i HAVE to learn visually. Inability to learn without seeing the bigger picture first.

The list goes on. It was only until a few months ago i got a diagnosed i realised half the difficulties i have were part of ADD. Speaking to many others has allowed me to learn more about myself and techniques of doing things, making my life easier.

ADD is not the figment of someone's imagination.

Ettina
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30 Jul 2011, 2:56 pm

Piles of studies have shown significant differences between ADHD and NT in functioning on numerous types of assessments. Most tests of executive functions show that ADHD people perform more poorly than NTs - the classic example is the Continuous Performance Task, which gets you to listen to a string of words and press a button every time you hear a certain word. ADHD people are more likely to press the button at the wrong time and fail to press it at the right time.

I do agree that ADHD is overdiagnosed though. My brother was diagnosed as ADHD by this one doctor who assessed him a few years ago. This guy's 'tests' included things like whether you answering 'toast' to 'what do toasters toast?' and whether you showed interference on the Stroop test (which every literate person does). I don't know how many kids this guy has diagnosed whose parents weren't knowledgable enough to spot him as a quack, or how many others there are like him. But it makes me worry.

trenchcoatguy
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30 Jul 2011, 3:25 pm

dougn wrote:

trenchcoatguy wrote:

you know i started this debate here entirely because my belief is not so firm and i wanted to hear the opposing opinions of one such as yourself and see factual evidence of the other side.

trenchcoatguy wrote:

And offensive to people with ADD.... i received suc a severe diagnosis of ADD that i was almost put in "special" school. I know the plights very VERY well, and i feel i was cheated.

The best way to start a debate is to state a firm belief in something so people are inclined to disagree. And you seem to be misunderstanding my standpoint, i am saying there is something that is being diagnosed as ADD and that it is just a general lack of interest in school, not being able to pay attention in school is very hard i understand that, but the medical industry has claimed ADD is a physical and medical illness, not just behavior, and i feel it is ridiculous to take something as far as the medical industry has taken ADD when you cannot prove the existence of it. And i am supporting the position as is tradition in debate, one must take a standpoint to find the opposite standpoint, i am still leaning towards the ADD isnt real and some kids just dont have the attention span for school standpoint.

trenchcoatguy
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30 Jul 2011, 3:28 pm

Sorry for getting off topic im prone to ranting.[/quote]

I'm in the UK and was diagnosed. My mum was diagnosed. Many kids i worked with have been diagnosed with ADD.

There are many other factors to ADD than just 'not paying attention in school'.

I was constantly frustrated at myself, my inability to remember items, get to lectures with the wrong days stuff, late to exams, job interviews, inability to get up in the mornings, inability to sleep, nocturnal sleeping (apparently common with ad(h)d), making stupid mistakes in all my maths and getting 2-3 grades lower because of this, always getting yelled at by teachers because my 'work is a mess and i don't put in any effort' when i was trying as hard as i could.

Inability to learn from lectures, i HAVE to learn visually. Inability to learn without seeing the bigger picture first.

The list goes on. It was only until a few months ago i got a diagnosed i realised half the difficulties i have were part of ADD. Speaking to many others has allowed me to learn more about myself and techniques of doing things, making my life easier.

ADD is not the figment of someone's imagination.[/quote]
i have all those same problems to this day. I believe it is just behavioral i dont think it is a medical and physical illness for which there is treatment or cures, i believe it is essentially a personality trait.

Markmagnum
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30 Jul 2011, 3:35 pm

To the OP, I think the same thing happened to me. I remember seeing a neurologist when I was young, who diagnosed me with atypical autism, what is today known as PDD-NOS, but my parents never followed through on the treatment, never put me in special classes or any of that stuff, they thought that I could just "grow out of it", as if autism were just a phase of growing up, and not a neurological disorder that has severe consequences for my life if not properly prevented. They tried to make me go to camps over the summer between the ages of 7-13, even though it was obvious I didn't care for socialization and friends. I I suffered throughout my school years, was called ret*d,weird,gay,fa***t,oreo and other unpleasants words,mental and physical bullying, and genuinely lived a life of pure hell, not knowing why I was different or why I was ostracised, if I had known I had autism, I think that would have made my school years easier. Now, even though it is obvious that I am completely weird and have many autistic traits, my parents are still in denial, and think that I act this way because I'm lazy or selfish, when truthfully, I could care less what normal people think of me and have no need for friendship.

trenchcoatguy
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30 Jul 2011, 3:39 pm

example:
Little Timmy is diagnosed with ADD because he cant follow is teacher when his teacher carries on in a droll tone for an hour and a half.

My friend Taylor (real example) has hyperkinesis, Taylor has had up to twenty people (not an exaggeration) screaming(also not an exaggeration) his name at him from ten feet away whilst he stares blankly right through them lost in his own mind.

Now i understand that most people diagnosed with ADD including myself have trouble with punctuality and tend to make alot of mistakes in general. I screw up all the time, but i dont feel thats any reason to say that we have a real medical physical problem. I think it is an example of the medicalization of deviance.

fleurdelily
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30 Jul 2011, 3:43 pm

responding to the original post {and not the tangent everyone went off on..... } I feel badly for you. One should be able to trust one's own parents. And it makes me wonder what else they may have kept from you. I am sorry for the understandable anger and disappointment that I can only image you probably feel. I think that was very cold of them to keep that from you.

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