Sharing Characteristics of Psychopaths

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Joined: 30 Jul 2011
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15 Aug 2011, 2:29 pm

Psychopaths are con-artists, socially savvy and able to manipulate any situation for their own benefit, often making themselves out to be the hero. They can play any role to get what they want, lying so much it becomes impossible for them to tell the truth about anything. Their lies are completely believable, as they are top-notch actors. They know how to get around the law, lie and flirt their way out of trouble, and abuse loopholes. They often are seen as 'pillars of the community' and hold high-ranking social positions. They know how to act like everybody's best friend, but their only use of friendships is self-centered. They want to gain people's trust in order to take advantage of them. They also maintain some friendships solely as character witnesses.

OddFiction
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15 Aug 2011, 3:31 pm

Autistics (among other things):
Face a challenge in making and maintaining social connections;
Sometimes desire social connections, and sometimes don't.
Any friends that are made are precious just being friends.

Psychopaths (among other things):
Dont give a flying * about social other than when it gives them a personal advantage.
Generally have no trouble creating and maintaining connections which they deem profitable.

MotownDangerPants
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15 Aug 2011, 5:38 pm

Ridiculous, and I wish they would rethink the definition of a socio/psychopath.

They do feel empathy.

How do they read people and manipulate them, so well, if they don't?

I don't think they feel sympathy, at all.

MotownDangerPants
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15 Aug 2011, 5:51 pm

chrisdh wrote:

Callista wrote:

>Autistics and psychopaths have nothing to do with each other. Sometimes the two things coincide, but that is a coincidence and is no more common among autistics than NTs.

She has provided no references to back up her claim, so I'm assuming this is a personal opinion. Dr Asperger believed all his life that autism was a form of psychopathy and he was following in the footsteps of his teacher, Eugen Bleuler, who first invented the term "autism" to describe what he thought was a form of schizophrenia.

MRI scans conducted recently by Simon Baron Cohen in the UK have demonstrated that people on the autism spectrum and psychopaths use many of the same areas of their brains to perform tasks. These areas are not used by NTs. Check his website, please don't anyone expect me to do it for you.

"Asperger syndrome" was invented by the guys who wrote the first edition of the DSM and has nothing to do with Hans Asperger.

Investigator, maybe you need to investigate before stating that autism and psychopathy are opposites. Not true!!

What of the NTs who commit the same crimes as psycopaths?

Why are they excused? I'd like to see if every serial killers brain operates in this way because I doubt it very seriously.

You don't have to be one to commit the same actions.

I can see how someone with this brain wiring may be more *likely* to behave in a psycopathic manner, but the majority of autistics walking among us today do not.

TheygoMew
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15 Aug 2011, 6:05 pm

chrisdh wrote:

You haven't provided any evidence. Pulling out what a researcher has decided to support your thoughts and opinions isn't providing research yourself and in fact just proves that you would rather believe in lies than do your own research.

I could pull up claims from all over citing complete opposite conclusions based on what researchers say. Researchers are paid by people who are already biased. If psychopathy and autism are the same then why do us autistics love animals so much meanwhile children with personality disorders kill them with cruel intentions?

If autistics are the same as psychopaths then why is it that autistics are not socially suave enough to pull off what psychopaths do?

If autistics are psychopaths then why are we bullied, teased and harassed? Wouldn't you think if someone really was a psychopath the last thing you'd want to do is harass one because that person may kill you?

I think you're judgement is wrong and perhaps you are just someone who doesn't like autistic people so you want to peg them as evil cruel people.

MoonMetropolis
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15 Aug 2011, 6:14 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial ... y_disorder

Many of these symptoms certainly sound similar to aspergers syndrome. I think many of you are denying it simply because you don't want to accept the fact that aspergers and ASPD actually do have a lot of things in common.

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OddFiction
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15 Aug 2011, 6:46 pm

The website you just pimped wrote:

There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others

1.failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2.deception, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3.impulsiveness or failure to plan ahead;
4.irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5.reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6.consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7.lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another;

I don't see how any of that has a correlation to ASDs?

And Honey if you're looking farther down the page at the ICD diagnosis criteria? You'll notice it's prefaced with saying "this isn't the criteria for psychopathy or antisocial" but is rather for an entirely different issue called dissocial and really shouldn't be on the same page.

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15 Aug 2011, 10:32 pm

Yeah, ASPD was meant to be criteria for psychopathy, but in trying to make it more 'objective' they took out everything that distinguishes psychopaths from other criminals. 90% of people in jail meet criteria for ASPD, while about 30% are psychopaths.

Oh, and by the way, psychopath and serial killer aren't synonymous either. Pretty much all serial killers are psychopaths, but most psychopaths aren't serial killers - instead they're petty criminals who steal stuff and get into fights, or the ones with better self-control are white collar criminals. Serial killers have to be a psychopath with good self control and intelligence (so they don't get caught after the first kill) plus some kind of issue making them want to kill, such as severe sexual sadism or some kind of trauma. Whatever it is that makes someone a serial killer, it's a pretty rare combination.

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15 Aug 2011, 11:35 pm

MoonMetropolis wrote:

Many of these symptoms certainly sound similar to aspergers syndrome. I think many of you are denying it simply because you don't want to accept the fact that aspergers and ASPD actually do have a lot of things in common.

Sorry, that's a load of crap. MoonMetropolis, you're going to have to back up those claims.

OddFiction wrote:

The website you just pimped wrote:

I don't see how any of that has a correlation to ASDs?

1. As far as I know, people with Asperger's Syndrome don't have a high arrest rate.;
2. Also, people with AS seem to have trouble with lying (not impossible) and a tendency to prefer truthfulness and honesty.
3. Impulsiveness is common, but this symptom appears in other conditions and is not strictly a sign of ASPD without any other signs.
4. While people with AS can be irritable, I do not recall that there's an overall reputation for violence. This does not refer to meltdowns.
5. While autistic people can sometimes appear to show a disregard for their own safety, there are reasons for it (not perceiving the danger in the first place, for example, or otherwise caught up in a cognitive thing that is not really describable as a "lack of concern"). SIBs are a different issue and are not related to this symptom.
6. While autistic people may have trouble maintaining employment, this isn't due so much to irresponsibility as it is to executive dysfunction, social difficulties, sensory sensitivities and the like.
7. You will find that while autistic people can be oblivious to hurting or mistreating someone (due to not understanding the social context of a particular action), that most tend to express immediate regret as soon as they understand what happened.

http://www.autism-world.com/index.php/2 ... -syndrome/

From here: http://www.psychforums.com/asperger-syn ... 40915.html

Quote:

What is the difference between Antisocial personality disorder and Asperger's syndrome?

Aspergers people are capable of love, and it's not uncommon at all for them to feel it - quite the reverse. Merely, they have problems understanding other people's needs, or guessing how other people feel - this means they are often bad at showing it. Bedwetting, again, is associated with a lot of disorders. Aspergers because a great many kids wet the bed when suffering anxiety in day-life (and Aspergers people of all abilities suffer high levels of anxiety... it's a scary world for them, and makes less sense than it does for us.)

A Sociopath, however, doesn't feel anything, and is usually driven by anger. They're cold and calculating, and have a bit of charm to them. (You'll find there are abrasive psychopaths who don't have this.) A sociopath learns normally, but just can't bond with anybody.

Aspergers people do not enjoy social interaction, and neither do the sociopathic, but for different neurological and biological reasons.

Aspergers people have impairments in imagination, and social skills.
Whereas Anti-social personality disorder people (inc sociopaths) have no regard for other people's rights, they know what they are. Aspergers don't understand them, but respect them once taught (well.. as far as any kid does). Whereas anti-social personality disorder people are often very deceitful, Aspergers people very rarely are... at least naturally (they can learn, believe me). Aspergers people tend to prefer a fixed routine, antisocial people are often impulsive and unpredictable. Aspergers people do show/feel remporse, antisocial people do not.

Of course, these are all generalizations, but these are very different disorders with different symptoms, causes and methods of treatment.

You'll need better sources than wikipedia's duplication of diagnostic criteria to make your argument.

MoonMetropolis
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16 Aug 2011, 1:56 am

You're actually using some guy's FORUM post - complete with misspellings and grammatical errors - to refute my encyclopedic entry? :lol:

Verdandi wrote:

Sorry, that's a load of crap. MoonMetropolis, you're going to have to back up those claims.

Oh, I see what you did there. You took what I said before and then used it right back at me. Man, you are so clever.

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TheygoMew
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16 Aug 2011, 10:53 am

^Redneckville.

Everything you learned about autism and aspergers probably came from the locals.

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16 Aug 2011, 4:08 pm

MoonMetropolis wrote:

You're actually using some guy's FORUM post - complete with misspellings and grammatical errors - to refute my encyclopedic entry? :lol:

The wikipedia entry doesn't support your case at all. So it's basically your (some other guy's FORUM post) word in the first place. Since you have yet to prove your argument, why should it require a substantial refutation?

MoonMetropolis wrote:

Oh, I see what you did there. You took what I said before and then used it right back at me. Man, you are so clever.

The difference is that when you tried to call out Callista, you were wrong. Many autistic people do feel intense emotions.

Your post that we're all just in denial, on the other hand, was simply bland, accusatory, and wrong. I read in another thread that you hate people - it may very well be that you have a lot in common with pyschopaths, and there's nothing wrong with that (as long as you're not hurting people). Just don't assume that everyone else is exactly like you.

MoonMetropolis
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16 Aug 2011, 4:08 pm

TheygoMew wrote:

^Redneckville.

Everything you learned about autism and aspergers probably came from the locals.

Man, there is really no limit to your sharp wit. What's next, O comic genius? A "ur mawm" joke, I'm guessing?

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Last edited by MoonMetropolis on 16 Aug 2011, 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ettina
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16 Aug 2011, 4:15 pm

Quote:

What a ret*d.

Please don't use 'ret*d' as an insult, it's offensive to people with cognitive disabilities.

Callista
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16 Aug 2011, 4:21 pm

People with AS have lower arrest rates than NTs, actually. Many crimes are social activities!

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17 Aug 2011, 9:37 am

Quote:

People with AS have lower arrest rates than NTs, actually. Many crimes are social activities!

According to this study, the rate is the same. Only the lower functioning group have a lower arrest rate, and that's probably due to closer supervision because of living in groups homes or whatever. Apparently we're more likely to commit arson and less likely to break traffic laws, but otherwise mostly do the same kinds of crimes. They didn't study whether autistics did them together with others or alone.

I've heard it said that people who are sociable but have poor social skills can be tricked into taking the fall for their 'friends' crimes. They may not realize they're doing anything wrong, or go along with it because they're desperate for friendship and don't realize the others are just using them. This might be the case with some autistics.

Others may commit crimes related to obsessive interests - my guess is the arson cases that study found were autistics with an obsessive interest in fire. I heard awhile back about an aspie in legal trouble for driving a train without a license - guess what his obsession was?

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