Aspies and their honesty

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Yes your daughter could be taught to simply leave out the detail and say a simple 'thanks' and flash a little smile. But did your friend ask 'Did you like your Barbie doll?' cause that's a slightly different situation. Here your friend is appearing to require feedback about her gift (though even as an adult I'm not sure if this is asked to gain feedback and some self gratification or it doesn't really mean much and it's just acknowledging your daughters existance and presence in the room and therefore the purpose of your daughters answer would not be to give feedback but just acknowledge the other persons existance also. I think I'm learning things as I'm writing this! If the latter is the actual reason it would have been great to have understood this earlier - I'm not supposed to give feedback just acknowledge your there - because without others - would we even know we exist? Is this how it works?)

How old is your daughter? If what I have just somehow discovered is true - and I'm thinking it might be as NTs don't really want to know 'how you are' when they ask 'how are you?' (this I have read many times here) then explaining it thus to your daughter (if she's old enough to understand) may give her a brand new perspective to work from and may eliminate the discomfort of slightly false disclosure.

However - in the case of my bosses cardigan question - that was seeking feedback was it not? She was not acknowledging my existance in this sinario - was she? The cardigan did not suit her, I don't think it had buttons and the colour wasn't great! There's no way out of this one - I think I did her a favour - while everyone else lied. I would just like to point out that there have been occasions I have gone into work and complimented her on 'looking very nice today' just so you know I'm not all bad

You don't have to lie outright in order to avoid offending someone. For instance, rather than replying in absolute terms ("Yes" and "No" answers, for example), instead you might want to say "Not really". In this way you are at least allowing the other party to inquire with you in greater detail as to why you do not like said apparel. You can create discourse from very little spoken dialogue in conversation, actually; and the more you practice, the better you become. It helps if you're a bit of a wordsmith, however, with verbal/linguistics being one of your primary intelligences, as this may not fit all aspie profiles.

I lied a lot as a child and I regret very few of those lies, often telling them was more akin to describing little self-contained stories and the moral implication was negligible at best. From there, I refined my craft, and the lies grew enormously; but, if allowed to grow beyond all hope of manipulation on your part, they will often snowball as they did so for me. I now apply my skill in truth-bending to storytelling, and while I feel some guilt for at least a couple of the lies I've told, doing so has helped me more than any kind of psychiatric therapy. It allowed me to create stories that attracted the attentions of NTs, thereby building some kind of relationship with them, even if it was only temporal. Besides, I'm a writer, and lying is a like a trade for me now .

Aspies harp on and on about the social games of NTs, but if you learn the rules of their games, you can control the game and manipulate it as you see fit . Hell, it's probably true in the reverse if used on aspies as well, with our being more naive and so forth. Not that I'm advocating that kind of thing, of course, but it worked for me .

I'm a politician among aspies, I think .

I have the same problem. But I've often wondered if it could be cured with practice:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB-NnVpvQ78[/youtube]

That reminded me of Liar Liar.

I used to assume everyone was telling me the truth. Funny thing, my Aspie husband taught me to distrust people. He told me I was too naive, and I thought I was living in a fantasy land where everyone was good. Now I distrust more, not everyone all the time, but I do not assume by default everybody is telling the truth.

I used to tell lies. I became pretty good at it thanks to my mom. But I do not tell lies anymore. My husband dislikes lies very much, and told me if I tell him lies he will stop trusting me, so I stopped lying (to my family, at least). But it is still hard to tell the truth all the time. Telling the truth is not easy. Telling lies is easier. But yes, when I tell lies it usually shows up on my face, too. Or I think it does, because people usually wont notice it. My husband does.

I was taught to trust by my Aspie mother.

In the world in which my parents grew up, lying was reprehensible. You just didn't do it. If anyone was caught in a serious lie their reputation was ruined forever; people avoided them and made fun of them behind their backs. I had a cousin who had such a reputation.

There is a Biblical rule, "Thou shalt not call thy brother a liar." We lived by that.

Furthermore, in that community, especially among males, people simply did not look each other in the eyes. It was considered aggressive or manipulative. If you saw old men talking to each other, they would be standing side-by-side looking off into the distance. In a community where people were trusted to tell the truth, looking at the face was unnecessary and an invasion of the person's privacy.

Life was much easier for Aspies at that time and society was geared more for their needs.

Last edited by Lucywlf on 24 Sep 2011, 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

I assume people are telling the truth and it always surprises me to hear that people tell lies. I had no idea they even did this until a few years ago.

I am truthful by default, even when it's not in my best interests. Sometimes I can "censor" my answers, but other times, the truth just comes barreling out.

I can't stand when someone lies to me. The world is hard enough to try to figure out without having people lie to you. I have three children and I taught them early on to tell me the truth even if I do not like it because I can't deal with being lied to. My daughter is now 19 and sometimes when I ask her a question she still answers "I will tell you the truth but you are not going to like it". I still prefer this to being lied to though.

I don't like being lied to either but it doesn't upset me too much. First I have to know the facts and then I know someone is lying.

I also used to think everyone was telling the truth and then I learned from my husband that people will just say things to be nice. Now I cringe when I hear someone say they did something "just to be nice" because that now means to pretend. It's wasn't genuine, the person was being a phony. I take it as they didn't do it just because they wanted to, they did it to be nice. Not because they wanted to nor did they want to help the person. It was about them, not the person. I don't even say anymore I do things to be nice because I have learned that actually means being phony, to pretend. No wonder niceness is a bad thing and why nice people get crap. People think they are phonies and mom did tell me when I was 13 that being too nice is bad because then people will think you are a phony. I didn't understand until I got to my twenties when I have gotten crap for my niceness.

My aim is to find out the accurate description of things. If I have to say something I'll always try to be accurate. Often to the point that I have trouble speaking.

This is my natural inclination and it is very strong, but I am not stupid and I am capable of learning when it's not a good idea to be blunt. If you talk to me normally or if you catch me with my guard down I will be blunt. If my guard is up I may not be. I may be silent, I may evade, I may divert and if I am forced to I may lie, though I find lies deeply annoying.

*shrugs*

What bothers me most is not that other people lie, but when it just isn't important to them to be accurate. To know what is true. I find that harder to understand than lying, for which there can be many extenuating factors.

No. My friend just gave her the present and told her "Merry Christmass". Thank God my daughter unwrapped the present in her bedroom so my friend did not listen to her when she said the "I do not like Barbie dolls anymore". I told my daughter: "yes, I know you do not like Barbie dolls anymore, but she doesnt. She was trying to be nice to use because you used to like Barbie dolls. Please do not tell her you do not like Barbie dolls anymore. Just say "thank you". A couple of weeks later I told my friend my daughter does not like with Barbie dolls anymore. So now she knows.



My daughter is 11 years-old.



Yes, most of the time people do not really want to know how you are. This is just a common phrase to open a conversation (it is polite to ask).



Yes, in the case of your boss I do think she was seeking feedback. I think the really believed everyone else and thought her cardigan was cute. But well, if there was anything nice you could say about it... there wasnt. But believe me, she will not take it as a favor. Maybe saying "I am sorry, but I dont like it" would have been better than saying it was not nice. That you do not find something beautiful do not always mean it is not.

For example, my daughter used to say "that is revolting" when she tried some food she did not like. The food was not revolting, she just did not like it. Turns out it was something me and my husband (and a lot other people) found delicious. I taught her to change her ways and just say "I do not like it" instead of "It is revolting". There is no need to assume just because you do not like something everybody else will find it disgusting, too.

So she didn't say it in front of the person good. So what's wrong with saying it to herself alone?

But yet you turn around and told your friend she doesn't like Barbies anymore. That doesn't make any sense because you just broke your own rule.

Does anyone else feel manipulative if they lie or play NT games? It seems bad to think about it a lot then still lie as an Aspie. I don't think NTs go through the same thought process spending ages agonising over whether to lie or not first. I think I'm more in control of what I say as think a lot before I say it

Re: the comment about doing something "just to be nice" being phony. Surely it is nicer to try not to upset someone unless they are specifically looking for an honest opinion. Quite often they want support that they look nice so they can feel better rather than to know otherwise.

I tend to say nothing unless it is positive, or find something true. You could just start asking where she got it and not answer directly or say umm and make positive/vague noises so you have not said anything technically. I try and hold back and come home and tell my husband or someone who I know agrees so I can say it without hurting anyone's feelings or falling out with anyone or sound it out and see if it is appropriate to say or not.

I did once say I was overqualified in an interview and do worry about stuff just coming out in interviews when I am under stress. I do struggle to lie and my body language seems to scream out that what I am saying is a lie and people say things like "you don't look convinced."

Ilka wroteYes, most of the time people do not really want to know how you are. This is just a common phrase to open a conversation (it is polite to ask).

Ok - I can accept that it is a 'common phrase' used to open a conversation. So the recipient is suppose to say 'I'm fine- how are you? Right? And thus a conversation may (or may not) start.

With me it would not start a conversation. I can't make a conversation out of nothing. As it is not a heart felt, genuine question - then it is nothing at all. I can be feeling very crap and simply do not want to play this game. I don't want to say I'm fine when I am not. I want to tell people that my life sucks!

To say it is 'polite to ask' is a little confusing. The thing is - up until recently I didn't know that it was 'just a phrase.'
To me - it was like me saying 'I like your new top - where did you get it?' and then just walking away and not listening while you answer, and that would be rude! Do you see what I mean? Thinking in a logic kind of way asking' how are you?' when you don't want to know can't be accurately described as 'polite'. Now that I undestand it a little better (and will do my best to say fine, or, if I'm not fine I'll just say 'don't go there') I would simply describe it as 'a tag line.' It's like 'tick - you're it. Now you chase me.'

Interesting. In which version of the Bible is that written?

I'm fairly certain that lying is the bedrock that civilization ... umm ... lies upon.

The "little white lies," the politeness that is actually gentle lying. That is how humans tolerate people they hate. If everyone went around telling each other what and who they are mad at or frustrated with, and why, everything would fall apart. Would you buy grain from someone what said they hated you? Would you sell them a chicken, or fix their fence?

We are barbarians in this regard. Innocent, wide eyed, and utterly destructive barbarians.

Haha, I am also like that Tuttle. Except even misleading causes me physical pain (in the shoulders and gut.)

I just read 11 books of the Wheel of Time in two months, so the Aes Sedai reference made me laugh a lot.