Adult Aspies are socially 11 years old?

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IdahoRose
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05 Nov 2011, 2:57 am

I have always felt like I hit a wall (metaphorically speaking) in my social development when I was around the age of 12. It feels like everybody I grew up with switched gears and started moving towards adult maturity around age 13 and continued to mature throughout the years, whereas I have always remained at 12. I feel like a sapling in a forest of mighty oak trees.



btbnnyr
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05 Nov 2011, 3:17 am

In the area of the (to me) meaningless social functions, e.g. social hierarchy, I am much younger than 11.



SuperTrouper
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05 Nov 2011, 4:40 am

11 is about right for me.



Verdandi
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05 Nov 2011, 4:59 am

I don't really know how to categorize my social age. However, I was under the impression that - as Ai Ling said - human brains continue developing into our 20s (I actually read somewhere it continues until 30 or so).

I do know that autism impedes emotional age (as does ADHD, for that matter), which might also have an impact.

I've often, in many ways, felt I'm more immature than my age would suggest. It's bothered me on occasion, but usually I don't really mind.



Joe90
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05 Nov 2011, 6:22 am

I really don't know what ''socially immature'' means. Does it mean we behave like 11-year-olds when in social situations?


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05 Nov 2011, 6:25 am

btbnnyr wrote:
In the area of the (to me) meaningless social functions, e.g. social hierarchy, I am much younger than 11.

This.

Although, as others pointed it out, I also learned skills that help me to get by. A whole lot of "social thinking" (something similar to ToM) I've learned slowly during the decades by lots of trial and error. This, on a cognitive level, allows me to emulate more NT-like behavior.

Chronos wrote:
The answer to that question is, there is no answer. I think it's more accurate to say that people with AS have uneven socially development rather than delayed or stunted social development.

I agree with it, too.

Mack27 wrote:
As far as TOM goes, a lifetime of conditioning gets me somewhere workable. It's like a software patch that isn't perfect and has occasional glitches but does a passing job for the most part.

I like this analogy.



Verdandi
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05 Nov 2011, 6:33 am

Joe90 wrote:
I really don't know what ''socially immature'' means. Does it mean we behave like 11-year-olds when in social situations?


I don't think so. I think it's more like having the social perceptions of an 11-year old, although I don't know that this is accurate either.

I have the social perceptions of a 42-year old autistic person, myself.



Mdyar
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05 Nov 2011, 6:38 am

Verdandi wrote:
I do know that autism impedes emotional age (as does ADHD, for that matter), which might also have an impact.

I've often, in many ways, felt I'm more immature than my age would suggest. It's bothered me on occasion, but usually I don't really mind.


This ADHD notion is true. I've look up one the the many 'personality' symptoms and it is common. Is it executive related? At least partly.

I can see as one aspect ToM playing a significant role in "maturity" by way of the subsequent special interests filling the social vacuum, but why ADHD?

If it is frontal, and we know that it is, then what experience is missed to cause a lack in maturity? I'd say on average there is much that is missed; it is like you have to train yourself to learn a code that is 'missing'. In other words there is an absence in an underlying instinct 'to know how to learn.'

You don't pick up on encoding stuff, unless it is pointed out to you externally, say by hard knocks /or consequences.... it shakes you out of the 'lazy" fog. The information that was missed is now red flagged and you insert or log that into your learning curve. Hence, you slowly build or construct a method of how to learn, of how 'to notice.' This is done consciously, by an awareness that you some how missed something somewhere in your experience.

I've seen it published that "ToM' is, or commonly enough, delayed in ADHD.



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05 Nov 2011, 6:42 am

I still feel like I am still a teenager and I am in my 40's and sometimes I act like a 10 year old emotionally-I have impaired ToM I just cant walk in someone elses shoes. I think everybody thinks like me and I get frustrated when I don't understand and I have isolated myself for so long from social situations I am really bad in social situations.


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05 Nov 2011, 6:43 am

Actually, our "social age" is, generally speaking, more along the lines of a six year old.

Quote:
"Six can, oh so often, be expansive and out-of-bounds, contrary, violent, hard...to live with."(p. 4)
"Your typical Six-year-old is a paradoxical little person, and bipolarity is the name of the game. Whatever he does, he does the opposite just as readily. In fact, sometimes the choice of some certain object or course of action immediately triggers an overpowering need for its opposite." (p. 1, the first paragraph of the book) [Emphasis in original]
"Six's reversals are truly something to be reckoned with." (p. 2)
"I love you" rapidly changes to "I hate you." (p. 2, 6)
stubborn and can't make up mind (p. 2)
"The child is now the center of his own universe." (p. 2, 15) [Emphasis in original]
delighted by any silly thing that calls attention to himself; may do silly, show-offy things to call attention to himself when he feels neglected or shut out (pp. 71-72)
arrogant (p. 7)
self-important ("extremely aware of the importance of being Six") (p. 22)
demands rather than asks (twice on p. 6, 16)
thinks own way is always right (p. 7)
once started, will stick to a course of bad behavior or bad judgment regardless of the inevitability of being punished for it (p. 7)
asks to be flattered and praised as "good," even ("rather sadly and touchingly") following his worst behavior (p. 6)
can't accept criticism (p. 7)
feelings are hurt over very small criticisms, comments, failures (p. 6)
"He is so extremely anxious to do well, to be the best, to be loved and praised, that any failure is very hard for him." (p. 6)
wants to win every time (p. 4, 21, 45)
poor sport, can't stand to lose (p. 7, 16)
argumentative and quarrelsome (p. 21)
defiant, pert, fresh, snippy (p. 6, 17)
competitive, combative (p. 20)
belligerent, verbally and physically aggressive (p. 21)
threatens, calls names, gets physically violent (p. 21)
violent temper tantrums may require physical restraint because of striking out (p. 29)
jealous, envious (p. 7, 21)
to make sure of winning, will cheat or make up own rules (pp. 21-22, 45)
complains that others are cheating and not following the rules (p. 45)
some are very cruel to younger children (p. 22)
does not always tell the truth (p. 16)
will not admit to wrongdoing (p. 41) [Note: A technique is given for getting the facts out of kids that also works with narcissists: instead of asking if they did it, ask how they did it.]
goodness means the things explicitly required or allowed by parents or other authority figures; badness means the things explicitly disapproved of or forbidden (p. 66)
little forgiveness (p. 22)
very critical of others' conduct (p. 22)
expects friendships to be resumed immediately following tremendous complaint and conflict (p. 22)
wants to boss (p. 21)
"Many children think their father knows everything -- even what goes on at home while he is at work."(p. 16)
thinks his teacher knows the best and only right way of doing things; may not know which rules to follow when school rules differ from home rules (p. 18)
"highly undifferentiated -- everything is everywhere" (p. 7)
can't always tell the difference between "yours" and "mine," and so often steals (pp. 39-41)
"random and unconstructive expenditure of energy" (p. 31)
more interested in merely handling or using tools than in what is accomplished with them (pp. 53-54)
less interested in actual final products than in whatever he may be doing at the moment(p. 56)
"Sixes love to dress up and pretend they are somebody else...." (p. 49)



ScientistOfSound
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05 Nov 2011, 6:45 am

I'd say my social functioning/understanding is that of a 13 year old. However I act my age, and sometimes older than my age according to most people I have met.



nemorosa
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05 Nov 2011, 6:49 am

What does it mean to be socially 11?

How would I recognise the signs?

What would be the observable differences between age 11,16,21 or higher?



hanyo
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05 Nov 2011, 7:03 am

swbluto wrote:

A more developed theory of mind allows you to better comprehend a social situation because you're better able to comprehend the thinking/intentions/beliefs/knowledge/etc. of the people in the social situation.


I have no idea what age my social maturity would be but I imagine that it's low. I'm terrible at comprehending the thinking/intentions/beliefs/knowledge/etc of other people and generally don't think about them at all.

That Sally Anne test is something I pass but I see it less as a theory of mind test than as a reading comprehension test. I've seen other related theory of mind tests where my response would be "I can't answer that, it didn't say in the story".



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05 Nov 2011, 7:31 am

nemorosa wrote:
What does it mean to be socially 11?

How would I recognise the signs?

What would be the observable differences between age 11,16,21 or higher?


I'm not sure what that means either , all I know is that my son, being 10, "socializes" with some 10 y old boys and girls. He likes the girls better, because they are kinder. most boys I've met from his school are mean-spirited little s**ts, but socially very aware of what is "acceptable", I think. They just choose to be mean, and then set up the weakest ones to get the blame for it. So is that more "socially advanced" than the level I am at? probably, but I don't wish my son or myself to ever get to that level of social awareness ....
I think there is a level of social awareness that we cannot reach because it's just contrary to our values.
Girls are kinder to him because he is a boy, and a good looking one, who is kind and funny, and never ever annoys them on purpose. So all his friends are now girls. I can more or less relate to THEIR level of social developpment. They are not afraid to scream "i love you" in the schoolyard, because it is The Truth, and they're not afraid of the truth. They stand up for him when an injustice is commited, be it by staff or other children. His girlfriend stands up for him physically, in case of a fight. I can relate to this kind of attitude, so I would say I'm a 10 year old girl, in terms of social development , give or take a few years.



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05 Nov 2011, 8:02 am

Mdyar wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
I do know that autism impedes emotional age (as does ADHD, for that matter), which might also have an impact.

I've often, in many ways, felt I'm more immature than my age would suggest. It's bothered me on occasion, but usually I don't really mind.


This ADHD notion is true. I've look up one the the many 'personality' symptoms and it is common. Is it executive related? At least partly.

I can see as one aspect ToM playing a significant role in "maturity" by way of the subsequent special interests filling the social vacuum, but why ADHD?


Emotional dysregulation and impulsiveness. For ADHD, I've heard both that you can effectively subtract three years to get someone's emotional maturity or subtract 30% of their age. I think the latter may be more accurate.

I've also read that for AS you can subtract three years.



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05 Nov 2011, 8:03 am

Verdandi wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I really don't know what ''socially immature'' means. Does it mean we behave like 11-year-olds when in social situations?


I don't think so. I think it's more like having the social perceptions of an 11-year old, although I don't know that this is accurate either.

I have the social perceptions of a 42-year old autistic person, myself.


I wouldn't say I'm socially immature, as in communication. I think I'm emotionally immature sometimes, like getting into huffs and storming off to my room slamming the door. I know a lot of people who do this, but I still think it's rather immature.

I look down upon teenagers around 14 who mess about in the street. Me and my friend call them ''sillies''. I was never even like that when I was a teenager. I was very serious and would never show off in the street. I think sometimes 8-year-olds can act better than teenagers.

I don't seem to know anything what other adults know, for example, when somebody is telling me about bills, it's all double dutch to me. Once my friend (who is a little older than me) was telling me that her phone company sent her an extra bill and that she's going to ring them up but she doesn't quite know what to say to them, and I felt vague because I couldn't offer her any advice at all. I just said, ''yeah, just ring them and....uh....see what they say. I think it's bad that they sent you another bill.'' And i just go round in circles like that. But then when we saw another one of her friends in the town and told her about the telephone bill, the friend was like, ''oh you ought to phone up the actual head office place and tell them so-and-so and so-and-so, and then tell them your phone number and they will.....'' and so on. And my friend was like, ''really? Thanks, mate.'' And I wouldn't have thought of that advice in a million years. I don't seem to know how to talk like that to friends at all, all I can do is offer them my sympathy, and I can empathise and say how annoying it is, and that is it. I can't offer any political advice or anything like that. I'm so stupid.


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