Autism = Schizophrenia - Hallucinations/Delusions?

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Yeah, one thing can masquerade as the other. There's a "high-risk group" that can be identified in the teens; I know that much. But you can't really do much more than identify that group so that if they develop schizophrenia you can nip it in the bud, treat it right away--the outcomes are usually lots better if you start treatment right away.

But I guess it's not the end of the world if someone has those traits, and is misdiagnosed as PDD-NOS. After all, a lot of the stuff that helps autistics will help somebody with the negative symptoms of schizophrenia too. Social skills training, help for executive dysfunction... whatever. Just so long as they don't put them on antipsychotics unless they have actual psychosis, I'm not all that bothered about possible mixing of the diagnostic categories in that fuzzy range where the negative symptoms start out much earlier than the positive ones.

Are we now back to Simple Schizophrenia? There are two course trajectories: One is Simple Schizophrenia, and the other has psychotic elements.

The ToM trouble that you have is only symptomatic of a PDD. In the case of Simple there is a regression of cognitive ability to a debilitating level, without the overt manifestations of psychosis. Losing ToM here, in the case of Simple, would ride along with a drop in other abilities, e.g self-care, "interest," loss in ability to work. Do you think you fit this?

I really don't get this notion of a universal spectrum: "Everybody has a smidgen of something, everyone has a bit of something/autism."

There is not a pre-schizophrenic personality, that has a lower manifestation as in a "spectrum. " There is a "pre" window beforehand, before overt symptoms develop. Without evidence this is an unfounded hunch..... It doesn't exist. Do you think you are pre-morbid?

I've have yet to see/view/hear/read about any schizophrenics who lose ToM via the autistic way. It may ride upon distractions, delusions, hallucinations, or a severe lack of interest; so in this way of a presentation-- yeah, just as I lose ToM via distractions, memory glitches, etc.

I have a bit of autism too.

P.S. We have covered this in other discussions, and what Ive posted here is nothing I have not said in another way - nothing new. My ToM is at a loss as to explain these hunches of yours. My ToM tells me that once someone posted something again, and again, and again, and cannot let it go and obsess about this, via only a hunch, is not showing rational healthy behavior.

There must be some new angle/ hunch of this ToM connection and schizophrenia. Where does this hunch originate?

The best medicine you can do for your self is see a psychiatrist about these hunches/ and symptoms that you have. Otherwise you will forever loop in this neuronal entangle by looking at this from all possible angles, ad infinitum.

"Doc. I need help."

Well, it's a collection of factors.

I was reading a book on aspergers and it was talking about students and their specific complaints - students with aspergers would tend to complain about the way people react to them, while neurotypicals would worry about what other people thought of them. In the book, it said the ability to think of what other people are thinking about them is a higher order ToM capability and it's pretty clear from my posts that I possess these higher order ToM capabilities whereas many on the forums don't appear to. I also can quickly read facial expressions and understand the emotional content of someone's voice ... I think. Then again, some facial expressions have taken me a long time to decode.

Also, a surprisingly high percentage of schizophrenics have OCD. The reasoning for this seems to be quite simple, both OCD and certain types of schizophrenia are associated with heightened fear, with the amgydala underlying both disorders. Seeing the number of posts of mine that seem to be quite unlike usual autistic behavior, and noticing that fear was the underlying motivator, and since I scored quite high on the OCD screening test, it seems quite likely I have OCD.

Also, some of my language mistakes seem to be... not-so-autistic and more schizo*. For example, the other day I was talking and said "Adults" when I was thinking "dots". These aren't semantically related, they're only similar in sound. This "sound governing property" is quite common among the speech of schizophrenics with formal thought disorder.

Also, it seems possible that ToM mistakes are not simply a matter of "autistic mistakes". I'm sure there are various other ToM mistakes that aren't related to autism and it's quite possible that many of them are related to certain types of "strange thinking" associated with schizophrenia. Or possibly "lack of experience" or something.

I'm also generally bizarre/non-sensical. I created a small walk-through story for a computer RPG game for Technology class in 12th grade, and I created a bunch of bizarre names for enemies and a weird plot, and after the class presentation of it, some kid suggested that he knew someone's mom that thought like that and she was a schizophrenic. Although, I think he might've been trying to insult/scare me because he liked this girl named Kayla C. who liked me at the time but she didn't like him.

And, I just generally seem to think of others... I seem to remember, maybe falsely so, of a time when I was young and I would play games with other people and I would cooperate with them and sometimes I would compete against them, and I would try to predict their behaviors, and I felt like I was quite good at it. Of course, it might be a false memory (I don't really remember much detail, for example, I don't remember any specific game and I seem to strain to think of any game that could've possibly been "it".), but it seems to stand out strongly in mind.

Also, I was reading the schizophrenic risk factors... http://psychcentral.com/news/2008/01/21 ... /1817.html ...

In the article, it states that 70 to 80 percent of those with 2 of the risk factors develop full blown schizophrenia. And it seems I have 3 of the risk factors, though I don't really know if my risk factors are bad enough to actually be "true blue risk factors" as defined by their study.

OK, LISTEN up Bob Spaggots..Maggots!
heres my credentials: I've read 4 books on ASD and two on scizophrenia, that makes me an E-psychiatrist, deal with it! here's what I've learned

Things autism has that schizophrenia does not have

* Intense repetitive interests which are more rote then meaning
* Speech delay
* Symptoms obvious by about 4 or 5 - I can't stress that enough
* Chronically socially awkward/inappropriate with waxing and waning.
* Often poor imaginative play as a child
* Does not like to be touched OR is always looking to be touched and hugged.
* echolia, paralalia
* Often a specific learning disorder and ADHD comorbid

Things schizophrenia has that autism does not have

* Hallucinations
* Delusions
* Disorganised Speech/Formal Though Disorder "I was gonna kick the shin is where you don't want to be hurting my head when I have a headache is quite a good book"
* Disorganised behavior - wearing odd clothing, saying odd things
* Catatonic Behavior - not the same as the repetitive behavior in autism
* Lack of motivation, pleasure, drive, increased apathy.
* Poor hygeine
* usually begins around 18 to 30

Shared Symptoms

* Social dysfunction
* no eye contact
* Often lost in own thoughts, very introspective
* Ocassionally poor motor control in schizophrenia, frequent in autism
* Hypersensetivity
* Executive dysfunction
* Some other stuff i can't think of.

But, do you have the symptoms of premorbid schizophrenia?

What are the symptoms of and pathology of this and do they apply?

Do you have Simple, and why or why not does this apply?

Your display of ToM falls short, it isn't in the center, look back at your specific posts. Any non autistic will tell you this.
This ToM is central to you.

Can you show evidence of autistic like ToM in schizophrenia or Simple or Pre?

How long does or can the prodromal phase last, and if you were in this phase could you detect it by your own cognition?

And?



Not much here.




You posted you had language delays-- is this not typical of PDD?


Was your relationship reciprocal, or was this one way, one sided abnormal play?
Did you feel empathy or did you sense their mind and emotions as if you were them?

One day you bounce here and the next day you bounce over there again, each compartmentalized and separate from the other.

Again this is something you need to remedy by seeing a psychiatrist. What makes you think you can really master this on your own?

Catatonia in Autistic Spectrum Disorders

HFA vs. Severe Autism: Is adaptive functioning related to cognitive skills?

*shrug* I don't think it's the same, or at least not for the same reasons.

for the record, I'm being investigated for schizophrenia, I'm getting an assesment in a couple of weeks

I have 'Schizoid PD', my psychologist said my initial psychiatrist, at the mental psychiatric hospital to which I was held for 72hrs, may have not entirely diagnosed correctly.

What I experience.

'Thought Disorders'
Racing thoughts
Flight of ideas
Circumstantiality
Neologisms
Pressured Speech
Stilted speech
Blocking (could be due to medications)

All negative symptoms of Schizophrenia
absent-minded
nihilism
Anhedonia (due to esoteric/quick exhausting/expiring interests)
Avolition
grandiosity
Preoccupation with fantasy and introspection (cannot stress enough; this includes rehearsed scripting of theoretical social scenarios/situations/interactions of others to which I marionette, it is application in real world as where my social difficulties lye.

Other:
OCD
Social Anxiety
Chronic Insomnia
Little or no eye contact.
Hand flapping
Wrist jerking/rotating
Blinking/eye tics
Head jerking + finger twirling (way to control visualization of complex Rumination )
other other:
Was in speech therapy till 2nd grade.

Pretty much, yeah.

Asperger's = infantile onset Simple Schizophrenia

Simple Schizophrenia = Schizophrenia without delusions and/or hallucinations (all of the negative symptoms without any positive ones)

this is very wrong. simple schizophrenia and autism are very very different, please see my above post.

Me:

And the restricted interests?

Autistic catatonia has a lot of the same features as catatonic schizophrenia, based on what I've been reading, and a couple of first-person accounts of experiencing said catatonia.

Autism and ADHD, both conditions that feature executive function issues, can and do create issues with hygiene, among other adaptive skills.

My point being that both of these exist in some autistic people to some degree.



I hope you get the help you need.

All that means is you can be diagnosed with. Pdd and schizophrenia providing you have hallucinations and delusions.

It does seem right to me and this is the consensus among many psychiatrists.

In the 1920s, they diagnosed a lot of autistics as schizophrenics and Asperger's is often misdiagnosed as it as well, even today.

My dad is schizophrenic and I do notice a lot of my behaviors mirroring his.

Granted, you will see some people on the spectrum who are nothing like the majority of schizophrenics and aren't at all psychotic.

For me, what they two disorders share is that the person lives in their own world and has an extremely narrow focus.

Very true for me, sometimes I feel so trapped within myself that I have to work EXTREMELY hard to get in touch with reality and I've honestly had concerns about developing schizophrenia in the past because of this.

But the hallucinations and delusions are what truly marks schizophrenia, even though it's a vaguely defined disorder and and can present vary differently in various individuals.

IMO, the big question should be - ASD and SSD are like dolphins and fishs (similar external traits, but with a different origin), or they are like dolphins and whales (similar external traits and with a similar origin)?