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nemorosa
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29 Nov 2011, 1:13 pm

MrXxx wrote:
nemorosa wrote:
I have no interest in what others think of me at all, but...I do not like misunderstandings; think whatever you like of me but please get the facts straight.


Can I ask a somewhat loaded question? I'm really just curious. Something about how you put this doesn't make sense to me. I'm wondering if you can help me understand it.

If you don't like misunderstandings, and want others to "get the facts straight," how can you expect no misunderstandings or others to get their facts straight without being interested in what others think of you?

I'm wondering because my experience has been that when I don't show any interest in other's thoughts, that's when misunderstandings and others getting the facts wrong, seems to happen most.


I wouldn't be bothered if somebody thought me boring, for example. It would bother me if somebody thought I'd said x when I'd said y. Does that make sense?



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29 Nov 2011, 1:39 pm

I don't worry about my reputation but I learnt to care and to make sure to remember caring about my reputation.


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29 Nov 2011, 2:57 pm

I guess I already have a sense of reputation but I care for it only to the extent I think it's necessary. I'm interested in how my family and friends see me, and obviously I also try to appear "normal" and acceptably nice in the eyes of my coworkers. I, too, don't like conflicts, so whatever "reputation" is, I don't like when people get into conflicts with me due to an undesirable one.

I noticed that people I understand better usually understand me better too and it's more common among them that I'm somewhat respected and thus I have "reputation".

And yes, there are occasions when I try to gain acceptance. I really don't have much. I admit that during these occasions I'm thinking of reputation and respect, but obviously my weak ToM and desire for factual knowledge holds me back way too much.

I remember once - I might have been 14 - my mother told me that many of my classmates thought I was swollen-headed. I was just stunned by her words. How could they? No one told me that before. I didn't tell them rude words. I didn't speak to them too much at all, anyway...


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29 Nov 2011, 3:08 pm

I don't care what other people think of me so long as I don't have to hear about it, or otherwise but up with any rude behavior that results from what they think.

In my experience reputation is more a matter of what people assume about you than it is based on what you actually do.



fraac
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29 Nov 2011, 3:44 pm

Yes. This has been studied. http://www.pnas.org/content/108/42/17302.short

Quote:
Abstract

People act more prosocially when they know they are watched by others, an everyday observation borne out by studies from behavioral economics, social psychology, and cognitive neuroscience. This effect is thought to be mediated by the incentive to improve one's social reputation, a specific and possibly uniquely human motivation that depends on our ability to represent what other people think of us. Here we tested the hypothesis that social reputation effects are selectively impaired in autism, a developmental disorder characterized in part by impairments in reciprocal social interactions but whose underlying cognitive causes remain elusive. When asked to make real charitable donations in the presence or absence of an observer, matched healthy controls donated significantly more in the observer's presence than absence, replicating prior work. By contrast, people with high-functioning autism were not influenced by the presence of an observer at all in this task. However, both groups performed significantly better on a continuous performance task in the presence of an observer, suggesting intact general social facilitation in autism. The results argue that people with autism lack the ability to take into consideration what others think of them and provide further support for specialized neural systems mediating the effects of social reputation.


I pointed out that they didn't test ability to take into consideration what others think of them, which could be done by telling them upfront to act in a way that made them look good. They tested whether nonautistics have no ability to choose. Usual blinkered crap conclusions.



pensieve
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29 Nov 2011, 4:58 pm

fraac wrote:
Yes. This has been studied. http://www.pnas.org/content/108/42/17302.short

Quote:
Abstract

People act more prosocially when they know they are watched by others, an everyday observation borne out by studies from behavioral economics, social psychology, and cognitive neuroscience. This effect is thought to be mediated by the incentive to improve one's social reputation, a specific and possibly uniquely human motivation that depends on our ability to represent what other people think of us. Here we tested the hypothesis that social reputation effects are selectively impaired in autism, a developmental disorder characterized in part by impairments in reciprocal social interactions but whose underlying cognitive causes remain elusive. When asked to make real charitable donations in the presence or absence of an observer, matched healthy controls donated significantly more in the observer's presence than absence, replicating prior work. By contrast, people with high-functioning autism were not influenced by the presence of an observer at all in this task. However, both groups performed significantly better on a continuous performance task in the presence of an observer, suggesting intact general social facilitation in autism. The results argue that people with autism lack the ability to take into consideration what others think of them and provide further support for specialized neural systems mediating the effects of social reputation.


I pointed out that they didn't test ability to take into consideration what others think of them, which could be done by telling them upfront to act in a way that made them look good. They tested whether nonautistics have no ability to choose. Usual blinkered crap conclusions.


I'd pretty much donate the same amount whether alone or in front of people. I see people worrying about their reputation as anxiety, and I've had enough of that without even knowing that people usually try to uphold a reputation. I think it's because my behaviour is so inconsistent. I can't control when I'm hyper or impulsive or overloaded or angry or even when I can focus. Some days I do fine but others days I don't know what I'll be like, so trying to keep all that under control and keeping a good reputation has never occurred to me. The only time I keep my symptoms under control is for my own health and safety.


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fraac
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29 Nov 2011, 5:02 pm

It's not anxiety, it's because they have no choice. They're just wired that way.



MrXxx
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29 Nov 2011, 5:02 pm

fraac wrote:
Yes. This has been studied. http://www.pnas.org/content/108/42/17302.short

Quote:
Abstract

People act more prosocially when they know they are watched by others, an everyday observation borne out by studies from behavioral economics, social psychology, and cognitive neuroscience. This effect is thought to be mediated by the incentive to improve one's social reputation, a specific and possibly uniquely human motivation that depends on our ability to represent what other people think of us. Here we tested the hypothesis that social reputation effects are selectively impaired in autism, a developmental disorder characterized in part by impairments in reciprocal social interactions but whose underlying cognitive causes remain elusive. When asked to make real charitable donations in the presence or absence of an observer, matched healthy controls donated significantly more in the observer's presence than absence, replicating prior work. By contrast, people with high-functioning autism were not influenced by the presence of an observer at all in this task. However, both groups performed significantly better on a continuous performance task in the presence of an observer, suggesting intact general social facilitation in autism. The results argue that people with autism lack the ability to take into consideration what others think of them and provide further support for specialized neural systems mediating the effects of social reputation.


I pointed out that they didn't test ability to take into consideration what others think of them, which could be done by telling them upfront to act in a way that made them look good. They tested whether nonautistics have no ability to choose. Usual blinkered crap conclusions.


Or...

isn't it just as probable that Autistics don't care what the observer thinks?

There's something else blatantly missing in that article. They didn't bother to say anything about how the Autistic donations compared with the control group.

What if they were higher? That may indicate that Autistics were more conscientious to begin with, and wouldn't have any reason to feel any need to impress their observers.

What if they were lower? That may indicate Autistics are stingier, and don't care what anyone thinks. Or it could indicate they don't have as good a concept of what a fair donation is, so it doesn't matter anyway whether anyone is watching.

What if they were a mix if higher and lower? That might say something else altogether, but I'm not sure what.

Way too little information in that article.

Too little information always = crap conclusions.


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btbnnyr
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29 Nov 2011, 5:19 pm

Personally, I do lack most of the neurotypical ability to automatically take into consideration what others think of me, almost completely in real-time and most of the time otherwise. In order to take into consideration what others think of me, I would have to remember that others think of me at all, and I usually forget to remember this itsy-bitsy teeny-tiny in real-time. It is just not a part of my natural way of thinking, and I have not learned enough of an unnatural way of thinking to apply it with any consistency.

I think that the researchers are talking about this natural and automatic ability of neurotypicals who naturally and automatically respond to social pressure. In general, for neurotypicals, not responding to social pressure is a choice that is consciously made and requires conscious effort to apply. May cause discomfort. In general, for autistics, responding to social pressure is a choice that is consciously made and requires conscious effort to apply. May cause discomfort.



fraac
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29 Nov 2011, 6:10 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
I think that the researchers are talking about this natural and automatic ability of neurotypicals who naturally and automatically respond to social pressure. In general, for neurotypicals, not responding to social pressure is a choice that is consciously made and requires conscious effort to apply. May cause discomfort. In general, for autistics, responding to social pressure is a choice that is consciously made and requires conscious effort to apply. May cause discomfort.


Exactly! Almost every study like this is actually a study of nonautistic groupthink.



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29 Nov 2011, 10:41 pm

I don't give a damn about my reputation.


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swbluto
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29 Nov 2011, 11:21 pm

Ganondox wrote:
I don't give a damn about my reputation.


I wonder if that's how you got the reputation of a mega-pimp, lol.



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29 Nov 2011, 11:41 pm

swbluto wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
I don't give a damn about my reputation.


I wonder if that's how you got the reputation of a mega-pimp, lol.


Heh, maybe. However there is a story behind that. For some reason a large number of girls found me adorable while I was at this one camp thing, and after they talked with me in a broken mixture of English and Portuguese and hugged them and got a photo with several in each arm the story morphed until its now that I ended up hooking up with 10 girls in one night or something crazy like that.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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30 Nov 2011, 1:05 am

This sorta has something to do with reputation. One thing that annoys me is when I am nice and friendly with people they think it means I like, want to date them or marry them or something. I used to be really chatty and friendly and certain people thought it meant I liked them in a romantic way when I just had a talkative, friendly personality. Why can't people accept friendliness for face value instead of always looking for ulterior motives?

This has led to a decline in my willingness to talk and exhibit friendliness.



swbluto
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30 Nov 2011, 1:21 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
This sorta has something to do with reputation. One thing that annoys me is when I am nice and friendly with people they think it means I like, want to date them or marry them or something. I used to be really chatty and friendly and certain people thought it meant I liked them in a romantic way when I just had a talkative, friendly personality. Why can't people accept friendliness for face value instead of always looking for ulterior motives?

This has led to a decline in my willingness to talk and exhibit friendliness.


Judging from a question on a relatively NT site and the people that related to it, this seems like a common problem for females. Apparently, if you act "nice", they'll think you're flirting with them, whereas if you don't act "nice" or whatever, they'll think you're a b***h. I personally don't think anything of it unless people are actually acting "bitchy"/mean, but I guess that might be just me.