Why are neurotypicals worth mimicking?

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You are projecting Asp-Z.

Bottom line:

--Do the financially independent folk have kids because of conformity, or is it innate, in making a 'copy' to share the life that they have?

What is "Aspie like?" Introverted Techie?

Last edited by Mdyar on 29 Nov 2011, 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I'm afraid I can't accept the idea of dictating trends. Trends, as I think of them, can't be dictated. They either happen or they don't. Trends are more the resulting patterns of non-dictated behaviors of large groups of people.

For example, in the military, soldiers uniforms are dictated to them. They don't get to choose them. That's not a trend. Fashion trends among the public though, are chosen by individuals. When enough individuals choose for themselves the same fashion, that's a trend, but it isn't dictated by anyone in particular.

EDIT: That doesn't take away from the general point the OP made though. I agree with the premise. I just don't agree with the insinuation that anybody is "in charge" of it. It is though, the individual response to trends, that bothers me too. Too many people just will not step away from the flow. Why not? Beats me. I always have.

People who are divorced going back to their partners again is because the human brain gets a natural high from the chemicals that are released when you're in love, so when you break up with your partner, you feel withdrawal symptoms from losing that high, and what happens when you get withdrawal symptoms from losing something? That's right, you become more and more desperate to get it again. Love is, literally, a drug addiction. Click here and here for the detailed science behind this.

And of course, the brain does all this to trick you into mating. It's as simple as that.



Of course I can only talk about the well known ones, but the well known ones are well known because they did the most notable stuff, remember.

The financially indepedant people are still slaves to society just like the rest of us. Just because they have the means to do things out of the norm, and many of course do, it doesn't mean they all do, so many do indeed have kids because of our society's confused perception of our mating instincts.



Not just an introverted techie, a generally socially unacceptable personality and traits which match up with Asperger's.

Why are neurotypicals worth mimicking?

Here's how I look at it -- and you are free to punch holes in my theory if you would like...

Being Aspie in a neurotypical world is a little like living in a foreign country where you don't automatically speak the language.

If you live in a foreign country but don't speak their language, you can get along. You can get to food, you may find rudimentary shelter, and you might even make a few friends. But then, once you learn the language, more opportunities open up. It's easier to get a job, find a good apartment/house, it's easier to date or make friends -- all because you speak THEIR language. Sure, it's really frustrating to have to learn a whole new language, but ultimately, it makes things better for YOU. You could call learning the new language "conforming" to their society. But if that's what it takes to make things easier for yourself, I'd actually call it "survival." You could resent the foreign country and it's people, because they outnumber you and it's expected that you will learn their language -- but it doesn't change the fact that learning the new language will benefit you. You can always go back to your original language when you want, such as when you are alone or when you are around others who speak YOUR language.

I'm sure this "model" doesn't always fit on every level. But -- when aspies mention highly successful people who may be on the spectrum such as Steve Jobs, or Bill Gates, or Tesla -- those aspies use their creative side to develop wonderful things, but ultimately, they still have to deal with an NT world. Yes, it may be frustrating, but look who our society seems to idolize in the end? Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Steven Spielberg, etc. -- those aspies (we assume) who transcend the NT world. My guess is that at some point, each one of these guys had to "mimick" NT's, even though every fiber of their being fought against doing so. The thing is, they wanted to produce something (Apple, Microsoft, movies, etc.) MORE than they DIDN'T want to be NT.

That's what I used to think, but I am not so sure anymore. It sure doesn't FEEL like things are better for me. I think I sold out whatever potential I had to do anything real with my life, in order to just survive on the hamster wheel of NT society. All the things I thought I needed, better job, more stability, end up meaning nothing.

I understand the analogy about learning a foreign language but here's the thing. None of us specifically chose to leave our natural habitat and enter a foreign country. We were born into this world the same way the NT people are born into it. We are NOT foreigners here, this is our planet too. We have as much right to our own language as they do to theirs.

A valid point, which is why there's so much value in autistic subcultures and people on the spectrum coming together. I think people on the spectrum are better adapted to the world when they are given ample time and space to completely be themselves.

Last edited by anneurysm on 29 Nov 2011, 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Groups form usually for the following reasons.

1. Control- People who thrive on controlling people and environments. Often spreading lies about a person to make sure that person stays out of the group or has no support so that their groups can get as many benefits no matter what they do to hurt others or lie.

2. Fear- It's either because they fear the unknown and want to black list those they don't understand or they have grown fearful of people due to discrimination. Example- Gypsy Communities in the U.K. and their battles with how they are treated has encouraged them to stick to themselves. Blacklisting groups can be seen in the media especially in regards to political candidates that they are scared of.

3. Fed up- Fed up of being treated as a minority and less worthy of human rights. Often times these groups are infiltrated by those who want to keep them under control and skew the groups foundation. Examples- Civil Rights Movement, Feminism, Gay Rights and any political movement that protests against the current status quo.

4. Merger groups. People who think a movement is gaining ground but wish to tap into that movement by merging together. Sometimes the group that isn't as successful doesn't really share a common ground overall and end up making the more successful group appear to have the same agenda as the unsuccessful group which distorts the actual intent of the successful group. Example...NAMBLA + Gay Rights when there was a merge over a misunderstanding. It made the gay rights movement appear to be standing up for pedophiles.

Successful merger groups bounce ideas off of each other but share a similar mission. If the mission is not shared or one group cannot get the other group to see from their point of view, the groups are split apart and the more successful group attacks the other group or just leaves it alone completely.

Sometimes merging is successful if it brings people together to reach an understanding rather than rivalry.

Media is then prompted to either skew and twist a group's intent or help promote the group if a group is formed to change society's way of thinking.

Aiyayai...

I don't mimic anyone, least of all Neurotypicals.

Well sometimes its nicer to actaully live than just survive....I think society needs some adjustments.

Thing is most people who move to a foriegn country choose to.....people don't choose to have AS for instance. Also just throwing this out there but sometimes it's better to speak up and say you have a problem with something rather than just conform for the sake of conforming for the sake of surviving in a not so great society. Neurotypical people don't own the world even if they would like to think that.

Well who wants to look different and encourage bullies? I know you can still be bullied when putting on an NT front, but ignoring all NT behaviour and being all different will encourage bullies even more, and then you will just get criticised by other people saying, ''well act normal then!'' But if you already are acting normal and you get bullied, you get a lot more sympathy.

Why not get rich? Pay for it up front. Get the girl of your dreams instead of having to just settle.

How? Figure it out, it's what we're good at. Scheme. I don't mean break the law. I mean analyze and find the most efficient, effective, and safe(which probably means not breaking the law) means of making the money and go do it. Make it a special interest.

A lot of us may be conned by mainstream society into not being confident enough to go for it. They tell us lies such as that just because we're slow at things they think of as simple therefore there's no possible way we could ever do things they think are complex. Those are labels. There are different skills and abilities, there is no linear ladder of skills and abilities you have to climb. Abilities and skills are different and can not just be lumped together and generalized into a score that tells you everything you need to know about a person. You needn't know how to work fast food to do rocket science. You needn't understand what counts as maturity at a family reunion to know the right etiquette and protocol for a business meeting. Someone wants to put me down because I can't do something trivial fine, because the reason I can't is because I've had more important things to do than waste my time with trivial subjects.

I realized a lot of my lack of confidence was because I kept evaluating whether or not I could ever do something in the terms many people taught me growing up. They teach us that if we can do something we can do it right away or not at all, that the surrounding environment and the internal body are supposed to be completely irrelevant to ability. Many people have an oversimplified concept of ability that we should pay no mind to and when they present this concept to us in all its packaged forms we should react with a smug indifference, just smile at them and say "you speak so well" or even "{Name}, you speak so well. I am impressed. You get an A". Be repetitive, you'll get them to shut up. Obviously there are specific situations not to do this, such as impressing a boss. The person might even say something like "you're never going to get ahead in the business world that immature", you could say the same thing as before or I got an even more creative one you could say: "We're not in the business world right now, so I'm not in business mode." and let out a laugh.



You can fake that. Read the sitcom description online, take out a couple of quotes. If it does actually intrigue you go ahead and watch it, but otherwise only do what you got to do to trick them into thinking you are normal. Just do the most efficient thing for your own purposes, if that is to actually watch the sitcom(if you will get something out of the sitcom) watch it, if it's to read a short description read it.

For the clothes, just consider the audience and how you want them to act and what sort of impression needs to be left in order to get them to act the way you want. You don't have to change your internal identity. You know what you really like and what you'd really prefer to wear. Hold on to that. Don't hold on to it with resentment, just hold on to it in the sense of knowing so that when the time comes you can switch to a style more you, even if it is just with a group of friends outside of work who share your taste in clothes or just you going alone to a concert or some other place.

It is not necessary to conform on the inside to do it on the outside.



Take the rich path. Take the independent path. Take the "Good Life" path. And don't feel guilty about it for a second. Why not? Were you told something as a child that made you afraid to do this?

Look at all the Aspies who became successful. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, and they didn't even graduate college. Isn't graduating college what you're expected to do? How often do you think wealthy, self-made autistic billionaires spend worrying about autism-related issues? Probably never. If they think about it at all it's a sort of happy "thank God I'm not one of those people(NTs)" feeling.

I didn't think I wanted to be rich, but personally not saying this is everyone's experience I realized that was just because I felt like there was something wrong about wanting all that(there's more context to it than this but I'm not elaborating on that now). Now I realize that it's natural, and that you can do others a lot of good being rich too. Look at Bill Gates' charity.

Last edited by DGuru on 30 Nov 2011, 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DGuru, that is an utterly brilliant post. Couldn't have put it better myself. I've always been of the opinion that manipulating NTs to do what you want is the best way to succeed, and it's a big reason why Asperger's can be an advantage for us.

And to add a little note about success vs. going to college, here's something from the Simpsons:

Society always reminds me of the Borg.

'Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated into the collective...and if you are not and still insist on being an individual who does not follow our 'norms' (as defined by us) you will be labelled as defective, rejected and will be plied up on medication via our psychiatric services until you conform (or can no longer think due to the drugs, full stop!)...We will stop you thinking for yourself or being an individual...you must join the collective and think and behave exactly like us...'

Society and its norms annoy me *ahem*.

I don't mimic anybody. I just be myself and it works better for me. I used to mimic NTs in Elementary School, High School and College and I've ended up making myself very sick at my first job, which 'm talking depression. I just be myself now and wear and do what I like. It's a lot easier and healthier for me, this way.