Was autistic-ness a prehistoric advantage?

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swbluto
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08 Dec 2011, 12:52 pm

byakuugan wrote:
When I get better at programming, I want to do an autistic vs. neurotypical simulation of a free-for-all chess game similar to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFIw8JSPrCw


I was playing against 3 other computer players on Age Of Empires II and they allied with each other and raped me; I had to pull out the cheat codes and summon some Shelby Cobras to save the day, lol. I'm thinking this whole "likes team up with likes" dynamic which predicts who's going to get their butt kicked, or not kicked, is one major reason why making 'friends' is so important to NTs.



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08 Dec 2011, 2:21 pm

But they drag you into their Machiavellian schemes and dark manipulations, eh?

Corrupted for the sake of networking? No thanks



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08 Dec 2011, 6:25 pm

swbluto wrote:
I'm thinking about the prevalence of autism among males and I'm thinking there's no way that these traits could be an evolutionary accident if they are so prevalent, so I'm thinking they must've had some kind of historic value in society.

I was thinking about the sensory symptoms and I wondered...

Sensitivity to light - Does that mean they are better able to see predators at night?

Sensitivity to sound - Does that mean they are better able to hear predators rustling around?

Hyperfocusing - Does this make them better able to focus on physical tasks that were necessary for prehistoric society and so they tended to be more productive than the people who preferred to gab away? Now, I realize that the "social climbers" were able to outmaneuver the more autistic people when the complexity of society allowed for a certain percentage of society to be idle while everyone else toiled away to support the idle few (I.e., think royalty and nobility), but those who were task focused provided the backbone for society.

So, was it more of a prehistoric advantage in the days of old?


I agree with the whole sensory thing. These days peoples senses are dumbed down by technology, except if you happen to be one of the lucky people with processing issues.

I heard that Aboriginals could see from very far away which helped them find prey and navigate through their rocky environment.

There was another interesting piece of information I came across when reading about the effects on the human brain from geomagnetic storms. It seems that the Earth's magnetic core was stronger in Neanderthal times and schizophrenia amongst people would have been the norm. I'm one of those people deeply affected by geomagnetism: fatigue, forgetfulness, rages, hallucinations, hyperactivity. I even check the NOAA satellite just to see what the solar activity is like on those days that they happen.

How's that for far fetched?

I really need to read that rdos article. Can someone read it to me?


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08 Dec 2011, 11:13 pm

swbluto wrote:
I'm thinking about the prevalence of autism among males and I'm thinking there's no way that these traits could be an evolutionary accident if they are so prevalent, so I'm thinking they must've had some kind of historic value in society.

I was thinking about the sensory symptoms and I wondered...

Sensitivity to light - Does that mean they are better able to see predators at night?

Sensitivity to sound - Does that mean they are better able to hear predators rustling around?

Hyperfocusing - Does this make them better able to focus on physical tasks that were necessary for prehistoric society and so they tended to be more productive than the people who preferred to gab away? Now, I realize that the "social climbers" were able to outmaneuver the more autistic people when the complexity of society allowed for a certain percentage of society to be idle while everyone else toiled away to support the idle few (I.e., think royalty and nobility), but those who were task focused provided the backbone for society.

So, was it more of a prehistoric advantage in the days of old?


To say something could not have been an evolutionary accident is really silly. Not meaning to disrespect, just evolutionary biology is one of my passions. There are many genes, the expression of which are somewhat detrimental, which will survive in a small frequency in a population, just by sheer chance. There are also genes which are beneficial in the presence of certain other genes, and detrimental in the presence of others. A simple example is sickle cell anemia. To inherit it from one parent endows a child with immunity to malaria, but to carry the gene inherited from both parents causes the disease sickle cell anemia.
'accidents' are the hallmark of evolution. There are countless features that could have been designed so much more efficiently were they intelligently designed. One that comes to mind is a particular blood vessel which takes a winding and doubling back path toward its ultimate destination, causing the heart to pump significantly harder than it aught need to, were this blood vessel to make a b-line to where it needs to go.

as for autism and evolution. I do personally have a theory that shaman are ideally autistic, and that it is autistic individuals who created the office of shaman. The shaman is a practically universal role in any human society. I would like to believe that the work of shaman has been a driving force toward the progression of our species, but to be scientifically minded about the proposition, which is mere speculation in itself, i must accept the possibility that Shaman are what they are, neither significantly helping or hindering any aspect of our evolution. And if Shaman are autists, their role may only exist because the autists forged the niche, not necessarily because it provides a crucial function. Autism may simply be an infrequent inevitable mutation due to the complexity of human brain structure.
Again i do personally think the occurrence of autism has had a positive effect on our past, and may have a positive effect on our future, but i will not assert on a scientific basis that this is the only way it could be



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08 Dec 2011, 11:21 pm

swbluto wrote:
I'm thinking about the prevalence of autism among males and I'm thinking there's no way that these traits could be an evolutionary accident if they are so prevalent, so I'm thinking they must've had some kind of historic value in society.

I was thinking about the sensory symptoms and I wondered...

Sensitivity to light - Does that mean they are better able to see predators at night?

Sensitivity to sound - Does that mean they are better able to hear predators rustling around?

Hyperfocusing - Does this make them better able to focus on physical tasks that were necessary for prehistoric society and so they tended to be more productive than the people who preferred to gab away? Now, I realize that the "social climbers" were able to outmaneuver the more autistic people when the complexity of society allowed for a certain percentage of society to be idle while everyone else toiled away to support the idle few (I.e., think royalty and nobility), but those who were task focused provided the backbone for society.

So, was it more of a prehistoric advantage in the days of old?


Are brains are simply wired a different way. I don't think it has anything to do with caveman instincts, albeit that would be pretty rad 8)



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09 Dec 2011, 12:39 pm

fully rad dude



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12 Dec 2011, 1:37 am

Verdandi wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Surely autism is a relatively new trait in our species?


Nope.

I wouldn't even be surprised if many of the genes associated with autism existed in other species.


Traits of autism are seen in mice, Bonobos, and humans. The mouse genome is very similiar to the human genome. Morever, all including neanderthals, along with all other primate ancestors, have a common rodent like ancestor 75 million years ago.

And yes, some of the same gene variants associated with autism in humans have been found in mice:

ttp://sfari.org/news-and-opinion/news/2011/two-new-autism-mouse-models-highlight-gene-dosage-effects

Quote:
Two new genetic mouse models that debuted this week show that having too many or too few copies of certain genetic regions leads to an array of symptoms reminiscent of autism.

A study published yesterday in Science Translational Medicine found that mice carrying three copies of the autism candidate gene UBE3A have repetitive grooming behaviors, fewer vocalizations and little interest in social interactions1. UBE3A is located in chromosomal region 15q11-13, the most common place in the genome for genetic causes of autism.

This came on the heels of another report, published 3 October in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, on another much-talked-about region, 16p11.2. The researchers showed that mice carrying only one copy of this region have severe repetitive behaviors, larger-than-normal volumes of many brain regions and tend to die young. By contrast, those with three copies have low motor activity, smaller-than-normal volumes of the same brain areas and are relatively healthy2. These data were first presented at a Boston symposium in December.


Note: these genes are only associated with about 1% of cases of autism in humans. So, please don't be alarmed by this information.

Who knows, analogues of these rare genetic variants may have been present in ancestors 75+ million years ago.

If the variants have lasted that long, one would think there might be some type of overall survival advantage for the species as a whole, among all the species that maintain the gene variants.



Verdandi
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12 Dec 2011, 2:04 am

Maybe, or they don't have a sufficient impact on survivability to not be passed on.

There are basically two reasons traits remain in the gene pool: Positive pressure (they help with survival) and lack of negative pressure (they don't impact survival enough for the carriers to die before passing the traits on).

Also, thank you for confirming that the genes exist in other species. Given how many genes we do share with a huge number of other life forms, going all the way back to life's origins, this sort of thing seems like it should be fairly common. Depends on when the genes appeared, too, of course.



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12 Dec 2011, 4:39 pm

swbluto wrote:
I'm thinking about the prevalence of autism among males and I'm thinking there's no way that these traits could be an evolutionary accident if they are so prevalent, so I'm thinking they must've had some kind of historic value in society.

I was thinking about the sensory symptoms and I wondered...

Sensitivity to light - Does that mean they are better able to see predators at night?

Sensitivity to sound - Does that mean they are better able to hear predators rustling around?

Hyperfocusing - Does this make them better able to focus on physical tasks that were necessary for prehistoric society and so they tended to be more productive than the people who preferred to gab away? Now, I realize that the "social climbers" were able to outmaneuver the more autistic people when the complexity of society allowed for a certain percentage of society to be idle while everyone else toiled away to support the idle few (I.e., think royalty and nobility), but those who were task focused provided the backbone for society.

So, was it more of a prehistoric advantage in the days of old?

They were the ones making the tools while others talked about how cool it would be to have tools like that. After the making of said tool, a social butterfly grabbed it and took credit for it and became king of the clan. The Aspie shrugged and simply began making another tool. A more innovative tool.