Can someone with aspergers be low functioning?

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"The teen on True Life with Asperger's seemed to also have mental retardation.

I know the IQ limit is 70 for AS.

Couldn't one still be very mildly ret*d with that IQ?

or do they always rule out AS if MR is present?

I don't mean the savant who was having all the meltdowns, the boy who was doing stand-up."

What is true life? If there's a link to it online, could I have it? BTW, I beleive aspergers completely rules out Mental Retardation. I think you have to have at least a normal IQ to meet the criteria for AS.

You can have AS and MR if the MR manifests after the diagnosis; I think (the DSM says something like "occasional cases in which Mild Mental Retardation is present have been noted (e.g.,when the Mental Retardation becomes apparent only in the school years, with no apparent cognitive or language delay in the first years of life)".

They call an NT "borderline" with an IQ score in the 70s, generally. It's not discovered until they're in school, maybe hitting a wall around the second or third grade; and school is where they have their main trouble--they often need tutoring and may be held back a grade. IQ tests are better at predicting NT than autistic abilities; but they're correlated with school performance more than anything else.

But an IQ score in the 70s isn't really reason for a diagnosis, not by itself. Mental retardation is a diagnosis not just made on the basis of an IQ score. You have to have problems in your daily life, too, and it can't just be trouble in school. So it doesn't make much sense to pin an MR diagnosis on the child who struggles in school but doesn't need more help than the mainstream classroom can provide. A diagnosis is meant to say, "Here's a problem we can help," and being on the low end of typical simply isn't a problem because the mainstream classroom is set up to teach kids in that range of academic ability.

Regarding AS and IQ scores: The criterion for AS is that you cannot have had any developmental delay. Developmental delay is slightly different: It doesn't just include MR, but also atypical development that lags behind for a while until you catch up. So, if you are five years old and are able to take care of yourself as well as a typical five-year-old, but when you were three years old you had the skills of a one-year-old, that's developmental delay even though you've caught up.

So what they want for diagnosing AS is a generally typical development, other than the specific traits that make up AS. Needless to say, this is a very rare set of circumstances--so rare, in fact, that I am pretty sure that most people today diagnosed with Asperger's are misdiagnosed, and should actually be diagnosed with either classic autism or PDD-NOS.

There are very few Aspies who didn't have some delay in self-care, communication, adaptive skills, etc., and that's supposed to kick you out of the Asperger's group. But most doctors don't really pay that much attention to the diagnostic criteria and just say, "Huh. You can talk and you're autistic. OK, Asperger's it is."

In practice, the Asperger's diagnostic criteria the doctors seem to use are:
1. Two or more of:
--A. Has an unusual verbal or non-verbal communication (eye contact, gestures, tone of voice, etc.).
--B. Has problems with figurative language.
--C. Stereotyped or repetitive movements.
--D. Does not understand social relationships.
--E. Lectures about unusual, narrow specialist subject.
2. Can use verbal communication at least some of the time.
3. Can take care of own basic needs (eating, dressing, toileting, etc.)
4. Not diagnosed with anything else that would explain the problem.
5. Appears to have at least average-range intelligence; or, has tested 70 or higher on an IQ test.

If you compare the above set of traits with the official diagnostic criteria, you start to see the problem. The above set is actually a pretty good match for classic autism--it's just that some docs still have the idea that "autism" must automatically mean "severe, obvious, and extreme". It doesn't, at least not as the criteria are written. As they're written, "autism" is quite a wide range, and includes most people currently diagnosed "Asperger's".

What happens if someone had a developmental delay because they were neglected when they were young or because they had hearing loss at a very young age or because they suffered abuse? Would that make them not have AS because of that part in the criteria?

All these things can cause a developmental delay. I think this is why I was diagnosed with AS because I had hearing loss so it made me not fit the autistic criteria and the doctor dropped that part from the AS criteria for me.

I think aspies can regress down the spectrum. I did. When I was a child, I was very high-functioning, independant, spunky, brave, a tomboy and considered by some a near-genius. Although I had social skills trouble, and poor motor skills coordination, I did have friends and I was even passably good at sports. I lived in a village that could be biked across in an hour or two where I had grandparents and a plethora of aunts and uncles. Then when I was 13, my parents sold their house in my hometown and moved upstate to the middle of nowhere. I lost all my childhood support system, all my friends, I had no one to talk to, nowhere to go, and nothing to do. I crashed. I went downhill fast. By the time I reached my early twenties, I was totally dysfunctional, no friends, no clue as to how to find a job, no social skills at all, no clue as to how to properly dress and groom myself. hardly stumbled my way though college. At that point, one of the aunts from my hometown "rescued" me and took me into her house where I gradually learned to become a somewhat functional adult who could earn a modest living, but it was two steps forward, one step back.Even after forty years, I've never regained the level of functioning I had as a child. Any other aspies have a similar long-term regression? It would be a comfort to know that it wasn't just me.

Queen--Yes. I don't see it as regression, though, so much that the expectations have increased. Children aren't supposed to get themselves to school on time, do their own shopping, or juggle the many demands of adult life. If as a child you can't do that, it's normal. If your skills stay the same, it looks like a regression because you can't handle the normal demands of your life anymore now that you're older and more is expected. And then of course you get more stressed out than usual and lose access to some of the skills you already do know, the ones that are most tenuously maintained, and things just kind of heap up together as you fall further behind. Sometimes I think that the most important skill for autistic adults, other than communication and self-advocacy, is knowing your limits and staying within them most of the time.

Technically, yes. But most doctors would say, "Okay, that developmental delay was due to something else," and diagnose Asperger's if everything else seemed to fit.

The problem is your environment changed so it showed your symptoms more. I don't think that was really regression. I think that is normal in aspies, they seem more aspie as they get older because the environment changes and so do the social rules, plus people change too because they expect more out of you and put up with less with the things you do.

As a child, I had no problems with getting friends. I also played and interacted with other kids. But as I got older it got harder and harder because kids my friends changed, I had these two kids that never wanted to play when I go over to play (I am suspecting they either didn't like me anymore or they just couldn't stand me anymore but they were just being "nice" by not telling me they didn't like me anymore or they couldn't stand me or that they don't want to play with me anymore and it's a possibility their mother told them to not say either of those things), kids started to tell me to go away (I realize now they probably weren't trying to be mean, kids are just direct and very honest), plus their interests changed and they got into social chit chat and I found that all boring. Kids my age even stopped coming over because their interests changed. As a child, they would come over just to play with my stuff and then leave or come over to play when they had no one else to play with. So I went for the younger age group. Plus school work got harder and harder so I could no longer do it on my own but I started to struggle first and then I was turning my work in late and starting to get bad grades until I started to get extra help in school. Plus I ended up with an aid. It was as if I got worse as I got older but I realized it was probably the environment and the social rules had changed is all and the work just got abstract. I also struggle getting a job so that is why I hate looking for one. I don't know what I am doing wrong. It could be what I am wearing so I try and dress nicely if I have to pick up an application and then drop it off, it could be my smile is wrong or my body language, maybe it's how I write, but yet I have no problems keeping one. I just stick with it no matter what conflicts I face or what happens there. it's not like I can quit and then find a new one since getting one is very hard for me. But then even if I am still employed, that still looks bad because if a work place still sees I am working, they may see it as a red flag because if I am out looking for a job than quitting, they will see I could do that at their business and then look for a job as I am working there and just quit on short notice without giving a two week notice. So it's a catch 22. I also have no friends.

1.
--A. yes
--B. yes
--C. yes
--D. I am never sure, to which extend I understand. In my life I have read a lot about psychology, so I have learnt about how people "function", but still I do analyse situations 24/24 and never come to terms, by what I mean I can never find any "closure" and process it.
--E. I stopped it and lecture only in my head
2. Yes, otherwies I guess I would not write here
3. That's the problem. I cannot take care of eating, as I see food in abstract forms and colours and do not eat. I need people to prepare it for me, otherwise I might starve. Dressing: I can dress myself, but fail in changing clothes and doing laundry, if I am not reminded. I wear my clothes a very long time, but I improved, because I lived a while in a dormatory from a school and I didn't wash my clothes the whole year as well as I failed to eat. I cannot take care of paying bills etc., because I am too often "not on this planet". Living alone would not work for me. I cannot drive a car and have no social connections, except for my husband (Autistic traits) and one via mail.

So I don't know how to call it. I am diagnosed Asperger's, as I had no speech-delay. The diagnostician told me "Asperger's/HFA, but you are autistic" and she is the one, I still attend for therapy and she says "autism" and I have severe "adult-milestone-delays", though I was talking in time as a child.
Are there no criterias for sensory issues?

Last edited by Eloa on 09 Jan 2012, 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

True Life is a reality show on MTV, its basically a documentary showcasing people with major issues in their life. Like people who take steroids, addicts, people who stutter and a few other issues, I never knew they did one on Aspergers!

You would think that, but it's not true. The self help skills and adaptive behaviors requirement is far more often simply ignored.

Also, most of the people diagnosed with AS fully meet the criteria for autism and don't need a PDD-NOS diagnosis.

I couldn't make my own tea until I was 20. The bath thing was rather embarrassing (mum turning on the taps at a camp = some kid thought she came in the shower with me) to me so I tried my best to learn how to do it. I used to refill my bath with hot and cold water after I had been in it for a while. That's how I learned in say, around my mid teens.

[quote="Verdandi"][quote="Ai_Ling"]I thought an essential part of aspergers is being high functioning? The labels vary from person to person and they can get rather screwy. I would think if your language was on time but your self-help skills weren't you would be diagnosed as PDD-NOS. It doesn't makes sense to be diagnosed as aspergers if you mostly resemble autism.[/quote]

You would think that, but it's not true. The self help skills and adaptive behaviors requirement is far more often simply ignored.

Also, most of the people diagnosed with AS fully meet the criteria for autism and don't need a PDD-NOS diagnosis.[/quote] All except for speech deley & developmental deley. Isn't that right?

[quote="AlexWelshman"]"The teen on True Life with Asperger's seemed to also have mental retardation.

I know the IQ limit is 70 for AS.

Couldn't one still be very mildly ret*d with that IQ?

or do they always rule out AS if MR is present?

I don't mean the savant who was having all the meltdowns, the boy who was doing stand-up."

What is true life? If there's a link to it online, could I have it? BTW, I beleive aspergers completely rules out Mental Retardation. I think you have to have at least a normal IQ to meet the criteria for AS.[/quote]


This is changing the subject. You can still post replies about aspergers bellow, but I'd like to say something else. You know in the WP quoats? All of you have tyhe quoats in a nice white squar, but look st mine! They're horrible. They're really weird. Do yo know how to make mine like yours? Any help would be apreciated thanks.

Many people diagnosed with AS actually meet the criteria for communication under autism (unable to maintain a conversation). I am not sure what you mean by developmental delay, but aside from those defined in the autism criteria itself, none are required.

Asperger's specifically excludes speech delays, but even people who spoke late have been diagnosed with AS.

[quote="Verdandi"][quote="AlexWelshman"]All except for speech deley & developmental deley. Isn't that right?[/quote]

Many people diagnosed with AS actually meet the criteria for communication under autism (unable to maintain a conversation). I am not sure what you mean by developmental delay, but aside from those defined in the autism criteria itself, none are required.

Asperger's specifically excludes speech delays, but even people who spoke late have been diagnosed with AS.[/quote]

By developmental deley, I mean deley in development. Obviously their social skills are always deleyed, but Classic Autism often, the learning is deleyed too, the ability to read, write do mathimatics, etc. Of course; this isn't always deleyed though in Classic Autism, but it was in my case. I guess it's sometimes deleyed in (diagnosed) AS too though, since most things do. BTW, you say most aspies actually have Classic autism, but most of the ones I ee wjo are diagnosed (but not all) do seem more like AS than AD. They speak a lot, are very knolegebel & maybe have been diagnosed in later life, I wouldn't say that was AD. Would you? Sorry; does what I've just said make esnce?

Asperger's is a category of autism primarily defined by excluding particular traits that are not required for a diagnosis of autism. Classic autism is also a misnomer, as Kanner had patients who would have seamlessly fit into Asperger's patients. One thing about autism is that many autistic traits are extremes and can go either way. Either not having much speech or having a lot of speech seems applicable. The stereotype of "classic autism" as the nonverbal child banging his head in the corner and not acknowledging people has practically nothing to do with Kanner's work.

The criteria I mean, incidentally is:



If you meet the that criteria, you meet the criteria for B, and as long as you have five other symptoms (at least two from A and one from C) you meet the criteria for autism.

There is evidence that speaking early or on time leads to a somewhat different brain structure than speaking late, although this is not particularly evidence of separate disorders. Since autism is defined by uneven development and skills, it shouldn't be a surprise that speech could be early, on time, or late, and the similarities in symptoms and presentation tend to far exceed the differences, to the point that it is very difficult to distinguish between people diagnosed with AS and people diagnosed with autism (described as "HFA") as adults, and often even teenagers.

As another example of extremes: Hyperlexia occurs in about 10% of autistic children - that is, some learn to read early, often before they speak.