Did anybody else have trouble understanding Monday's xkcd?
Verdandi
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Randall is very NT. Notice that the solution is to get social, to do things together. And every second strip is about relationships (usually involving sex)
A rant about XKCD being shallow, mean and hypocritical
I used to be a fan of XKCD, and I do not agree with the old "XKCDSucks" - Randall is still clever. but I think he is fundamentally wrong on a lot of what he says. he simply reflects his own biases (which of course we all do), but he does so in a way that attacks people who disagree with him (as we all so). For example, the previous strip is about being a human being versus being a pickup artist. This is wrong on so many levels:
1. Statistically, the pickup artist will have more success, so "don't be one" is bad advice. As someone who has always tried to be genuine I can assure Randall that most women much prefer pickup artists.
2. "Be a human being" means to be pickup atist (see: biology). people on the spectrum can probably see how fake most dating is, but the daters seem unaware of it.
3. "Be a human being" is a variation of "be yourself" - advice given by rich and popular people because, hey, it works for them.
4. XKCD is as shallow as they come: like most comics it will do anything for a laugh. The pickup artist has more depth because he is at least true to his genes and millions of years of ancestry, rather than claiming to be something new.
5. The "good" characters in XKCD are always attacking each other, just like the pickup artist,
6. XKCD is itself a pickup line: Randall does it to make money and be attractive to the opposite sex.
My biggest problem with XKCD is, if Randall is so smart, why doesn't he use his intelligence to do something of great lasting worth instead of a comic that confirms the prejudices of a minority (that the newest shiny meme really matters) and makes the majority feel dumb?
To be fair, I feel the same way about Stephen Fry. In his biography he says how he has never had any desire to do anything worthwhile. Obviously if you have great intelligence and wit it is easier to coast, but in the words Spider-Man's Uncle Ben, "with great power comes great responsibility."
My second biggest problem with XKCD is it is so self centred. The nearest thing to being deep or meaningful is when they sit by a lake (a few days ago) or similar. Personal pleasure is its highest form of morality. Even the occasional token charitable effort is just that, a token, it exists to allow the selfishness to continue without cog dis.
I know I am being harsh, but I just expect something better from someone who is smart. You can be clever and moral and successful at the same time. Look at Peanuts. Look at Calvin and Hobbes. Randall does not have to spend his life building a monument to his personal genius - there are other paths.
PS does anyone else find explainXKCD's use or "their" jarring?
Randall is very NT my butt. For crying out loud his pic on Wikipedia shows him stacking ducks. If any thing this comic is parodying NT communication: you say something, but it doesn't actually convey what you mean, and communication is held up by prejudgements. Id The morale of the story is not "social power ftw", it's "visual instructions work better". And how does making a comic strip about statistics and other nerdy stuff make you attractive to women? Is this whole rant really just about one little comic about pickup artists? Really, it's not like aspies can't be partly motivated by money. If Randall is super NT, then explain the comic "overstimulation" to me.
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The mouse-over message explains it all.
None of the characters were listening.
Randall is very NT my butt. For crying out loud his pic on Wikipedia shows him stacking ducks. If any thing this comic is parodying NT communication: you say something, but it doesn't actually convey what you mean, and communication is held up by prejudgements. Id The morale of the story is not "social power ftw", it's "visual instructions work better". And how does making a comic strip about statistics and other nerdy stuff make you attractive to women? Is this whole rant really just about one little comic about pickup artists? Really, it's not like aspies can't be partly motivated by money. If Randall is super NT, then explain the comic "overstimulation" to me.
Fair enough. It is possible that I am just motivated by envy. I just see a comic about attractive people doing witty but relatively pointless things, which is itself a relatively pointless and witty comic written by an attractive person (i.e. he attracts millions of followers). It just is not a world I recognize or can connect to.
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Randall is very NT my butt. For crying out loud his pic on Wikipedia shows him stacking ducks. If any thing this comic is parodying NT communication: you say something, but it doesn't actually convey what you mean, and communication is held up by prejudgements. Id The morale of the story is not "social power ftw", it's "visual instructions work better". And how does making a comic strip about statistics and other nerdy stuff make you attractive to women? Is this whole rant really just about one little comic about pickup artists? Really, it's not like aspies can't be partly motivated by money. If Randall is super NT, then explain the comic "overstimulation" to me.
Fair enough. It is possible that I am just motivated by envy. I just see a comic about attractive people doing witty but relatively pointless things, which is itself a relatively pointless and witty comic written by an attractive person (i.e. he attracts millions of followers). It just is not a world I recognize or can connect to.
Wait, there is attractive people in XKCD? Is there even characters in XKCD?
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Autism FAQs http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt186115.html
The main character and his girlfriend are always saying smart things and sex is never far from the surface. Heck, I just checked his stacking duck picture on Wikipedia. Underneath is is a chart of radiation. The first item? The radiation you get from lying next to someone.
The cartoon in today's topic is about questions and learning from others. I mentioned the relationship angle (doing things together is the solution to our problems, apparently). I mentioned how the the previous day was about picking up girls. The day before that is about a love poem to a girl, with the last item "when I'm in [you]." The day before that is the boy and girl talking about a sex dungeon (for raccoons). The day before that is about sitting by a lake with a friend. The day before is not about relationships, but the day before that is a cliche domestic scene between with the male and female character.
Cartoons do not have to feature successful relationships almost every day. Peanuts doesn't. neither does Calvin and Hobbes, Dilbert, Doonesbury, the Far Side, etc. etc. XKCD sticks out to me as the one about happy relationships and sex.
It's probably just me. I don't like being reminded of what I can't have.
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CockneyRebel
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It's funny and I found it very easy to understand.
I do know how a bit about how communication works and the reference was hard to miss, starting with the title being "communication".
Except that I also found it poorly done in one regard. What about colours? Hard to pay attention to anything not brightly neon rainbow coloured in this day and age.
Oh, I like the radiation dose chart. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Radiation_Dose_Chart_by_Xkcd.png
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Verdandi
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Show me pictures of people without any way of seeing what they're talking about and how am I supposed to work out what they're thinking, or what the intent is behind the visual communications? It clashed with how I visualize things, and multiple things were unclear to me - such as the fact that there were two holes.
It happens to me all the time. One of the bigger issues with my autism and communication.
I say something or write something and when I'm done, everyone behaves as if I talked about something else, a different aspect of the topic I was talking or a completely different topic.
It's rare that I feel that I am talking with somebody about the same topic and that they understand what I wanted to say. They pay attention to parts of what I said (and what I appear like when I say them!) that aren't as important as other parts of what I said and they have vastly different associations than me about how my words are related to each other and how my words relate to the topic on hand.
Other people are listening to me usually so getting them to listen attentively is not the hard part at all. But they just pay attention to such utterly different things that they tend to miss not only the details of what I'm telling them but also the big picture.
The "fault" meaning the communication error lies with both parties, them and me. Our codes of communication are more different than similar in some important general aspects.
In that comic, it's just like that. The people don't connect probably because they pay attention to very different things during communication.
Right in the beginning, the guy with the hair is clearly paying attention to what the guy with the hat looks like. Not a good thing if he's supposed to, let's say, pay attention to what he points at (not pay attention to the fact that he points) and pay attention to what he says about a weird hole (the guy with the hat talks about the hole but the bubble of thought of the other guy includes nothing of the sort, so he can't be listening to the words much but he sure is paying lots of attention to the other guy's body language because the thought bubble shows the other guy running and pointing which can be interpreted in various ways).
Then the guy with the hat gets upset/angry/whatever that the guy with the hair didn't "listen" to him. Same with the girl. However, they're clearly listening to each other/paying attention to each other so it's not as if the guy with the hair and girl aren't listening and are bad at communication.
Okay, this is remotely what some people on here say.
That normal people struggle to understand autistic people and that it's not just that autistic people have problems understanding normal people. Even if they make an effort to listen to each other, it's not a guarantee that they understand each other.
If they can't understand each other, then claiming that the other side is bad at communication and it's their fault is stupid because communication relies on both parties equally and there is no "right way to communicate" and no "wrong way of communicate".
Did that help anyone who is still confused about the comic?
Not sure I misunderstood that (if I'm taking that too literal) but it does show what the stick figures are talking about or thinking about in those bubbles above their heads.
In case I took that too literal and you mean that it is unknown what exactly they are saying or thinking then yes, that's not in there. The bubbles only hint at the general topics (which are open to interpretation) the stick figures are talking and thinking about and it is impossible to figure out the exacts as there's no information given about that.
As for the intent of why the stick figures are talking to each other and why they do what they do or what they want the other one to do with the information about the hole, it doesn't really matter.
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Verdandi
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I couldn't translate those bubbles into interpretations of their thoughts. How am I supposed to model someone else's thoughts? This is not something I am typically able to do. The visual aids are simply not explicit enough to me.
As for the intent of why the stick figures are talking to each other and why they do what they do or what they want the other one to do with the information about the hole, it doesn't really matter.
I can't even work out from the strip that there are two holes, which is at the crux of the miscommunication in the strip. How am I supposed to figure that out if I can't even see from the presented pictures part of the strip's basic premise?
Now you got me wondering how I did. Or rather what I did. That's actually pretty interesting. I was wondering about something similar recently. I was wonder how come I have a fairly easy time imagining (by deduction) what other people (especially those I know) might be thinking? Or how come that other autistic people cannot go from zero idea about that to quite a bit like me.
"Not explicit enough", it might have something to do with that? Because when I first read the comic, I had no concrete idea about what anybody was talking about or thinking but I didn't feel that I needed to pay attention to what exactly was shown in the bubbles or the environment. I mostly compared things and paid attention to the directions of the stick figures as I went through the panels.
I didn't pay attention to that actually because it didn't seem relevant.
Going back to it, it is hinted that there is more than one hole in panel 11 where the pair is stuck in one hole and there's a sound. It could be any sound but given the next panel (12) that shows the man has fallen into a hole after them, so there must be at least two.
I wish I could figure out and understand why we handled the comic different when we first saw it.
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The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Terry Pratchett
