Does "doing the right thing" ever bite you in the

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Callista
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30 Apr 2012, 11:38 am

I thought you were supposed to get to the top stage sometime during your teen years?


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Rascal77s
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30 Apr 2012, 12:48 pm

TechnoDog wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
Sometimes it happens on a very large scale (think Stalinist Soviet Union where exclusion from the group meant death). It's just not in human nature, as a social animal, to do the right thing.


I would have to disagree. Only manipulative, cowards, bully’s, get one up, do it. Like I always say I would rather have a clear conscious than to surround myself with people like that & this social animal thing, you really need to learn just how much you can manipulate a person, to people not been social animals. Propaganda.

Normally the ones who were just too afraid, normally apologies when no one else is around.


I have to admit, I'm not understanding what you are disagreeing with.



TechnoDog
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30 Apr 2012, 12:49 pm

The concept of “reciprocal altruism”, as introduced by Trivers, suggests that altruism, defined as an act of helping someone else although incurring some cost for this act, could have evolved since it might be beneficial to incur this cost if there is a chance of being in a reverse situation where the person whom I helped before may perform an altruistic act towards me.

altruism, altruistic, mutualism
atuism, atuistic,
Autism, Autistic, Mutism

Someones subconcious was inserting words, me thinks

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Condition number six is required to avoid cooperation breakdown through backwards induction—a possibility suggested by game theoretical models.


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If chances of meeting another reciprocal altruist are high enough or the game is repeated for a long enough amount of time, this form of altruism can evolve within a population.


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1) the behaviour must reduce a donor's fitness relative to a selfish alternative;
2) the fitness of the recipient must be elevated relative to non-recipients;
3) the performance of the behaviour must not depend on the receipt of an immediate benefit;
4) conditions 1, 2, and 3 must apply to both individuals engaging in reciprocal helping.”

There are two additional conditions necessary “…for reciprocal altruism to evolve:

5) A mechanism for detecting 'cheaters' must exist.
6) A large (indefinite) number of opportunities to exchange aid must exist.”

Condition number five is required as otherwise non-altruists may always exploit altruistic


Quote:
The human altruistic system is a sensitive and unstable one. Therefore, the tendency to give, to cheat, and the response to other’s acts of giving and cheating must be regulated by a complex psychology in each individual. Individuals differ in the degree of these tendencies and responses. According to Trivers the following emotional dispositions and their evolution can be understood in terms of regulation of altruism.

Friendship and emotions of liking and disliking.

Moralistic aggression. A protection mechanism from cheaters acts to regulate the advantage of cheaters in selection against the altruists. The moralistic altruist may want to educate or even punish a cheater.

Gratitude and sympathy. A fine regulation of altruism can be associated with gratitude and sympathy in terms of cost/benefit and the level in which the beneficiary will reciprocate.

Guilt and repetitive altruism. Prevents the cheater from cheating again. The cheater shows his regret in order to save him from paying too dearly for his acts.

Subtle cheating. A stable evolutionary equilibrium could include a low percentage of mimics in controversial support of adaptive sociopathy.

Trust and suspicion. These are regulators for cheating and subtle cheating.

Partnerships. Altruism with the purpose of creating friendships.

However, it is to be noted that there is no concrete explanation on how individuals pick partners because of the scarcity of theoretical and experimental researches that assess the importance of choice; theoretically, models indicate that evolution of behaviors associated with altruism involving partner choices rarely occur due to variability of costs and benefits between multiple individuals. Therefore, it is believed that the time or frequency of reciprocal actions contribute more to an individual's choice of partner than the actual reciprocal act itself .


Quote:
Helping behavior is seen in humans at about two years old, when a toddler is capable of understanding subtle emotional cues.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_altruism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altruism


I am sorry about this part:-

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The argument that Nazi ideology was strongly influenced by social Darwinist ideas is often found in historical and social science literature.


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The real history of autism dates back only one hundred years to the time of the Swiss psychiatrist Eugen Bleuler. In 1911 Bleuler was writing about a group of people then identified as having schizophrenia. In his writing he coined the term "autism" to describe their seeming near total absorption with themselves and distance from others.


http://ipetscaner.blogspot.co.uk/2012/0 ... utism.html

( You know after reading this one, I think someone got a screw lose. )

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Repeat phrases they associate with something they want (e.g. "Do you want to play" instead of "I want to play").


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Last edited by TechnoDog on 30 Apr 2012, 8:19 pm, edited 10 times in total.

Orr
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30 Apr 2012, 1:13 pm

That was an interesting article, on Kohlberg.

I am unable to find a source, and drifting off topic, but recall reading an article regarding the Milgram experiments, which speculated that those people who refused to comply with the order to increase voltage were likely oppositionally defiant, rather than morally developed.


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Steven_Tyler77
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30 Apr 2012, 1:22 pm

Yes, this has happened to me too, but I don't regret doing the right thing. If I were to turn back time, I'd do it all again. Besides that, there have been so many times when only good things came out of my humane positive attitude, so I'm only glad I had it. I strongly believe that any amount of good done in this world is worth it and if everybody did their share (instead of doing harm), the world would be a better place.


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CockneyRebel
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30 Apr 2012, 2:58 pm

Being of a strong moral fibre, I'd rather do the right thing than nothing at all.


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biribiri20
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30 Apr 2012, 2:58 pm

All the time. Someone even explicitly called me an idiot for it once. Doesn't mean I'll stop doing it. If I have to be dishonest to keep a friend, I'd rather not have such a friend to begin with. Same goes for a job, sadly.


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Nikadee43
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01 May 2012, 11:44 am

I think it could be an aspie thing. Aren't the minds of most if not all people with AS based on truth? Which is why we don't understand or like playing social minds games and have issues reading between the lines? We assume the words that come out of peoples' mouths to reflect exactly what they're thinking and that they mean everything the say and will do what they say they will do. At least that's how my mind works, which is why I get so confused and frustrated with people (and even myself) that don't keep their word or lie just for the hell of it (or to be "nice") or who won't do the right thing because it won't benefit them in some way or because no one else is doing it or because they don't want to accept the consequences of their actions. I don't understand it when peoples actions don't reflect their words. I think aspies are naturally compelled to do the right thing, perhaps even a little more so than some NT's, and most people don't expect that. Maybe because society is largely based on social politeness; doesn't always matter whether something is true or not, what matters most is if it's "polite" or not.



Last edited by Nikadee43 on 01 May 2012, 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

little_black_sheep
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01 May 2012, 1:44 pm

Happens all the time. Just this week my male boss asked me to tell a co-worker that she is too fat for her clothes and that she should try to hide her body more effectively. 8O I was outraged and told him I would not do such a thing, because she looks perfectly fine in it and that it is rude of him to interfere with what people are wearing. :evil: I got in A LOT of trouble because of that and my boss is telling everyone that I am an annoying b***h. I am still angry that he believed I would do it and I think he should be the one getting in trouble because of what he tried - not me. :cry:


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Callista
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01 May 2012, 3:14 pm

You did the right thing. Your boss was harassing your co-worker, and you stood up for her. Most likely she is glad that someone did stand up for her. It can be very hurtful to be ganged up on; but if even one person speaks up against it, almost all of the hurt goes away. Sometimes, being a "b***h" is a good thing.

I'm pretty sure she could sue, actually. Saying "you're too fat for your clothes and you should cover up more" is entirely inappropriate for a boss to tell a subordinate, especially when they're opposite genders. Especially in public, in front of at least one other employee.


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