Unable to be employed by others - SSDI?

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Mummy_of_Peanut
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13 Jun 2012, 7:58 am

cavendish wrote:
I have read that one third of all the Americans who lost their jobs between 2008 and 2011 have either applied for or gotten accepted into Social Security disability. What does this mean? The answer is that there are a whole lot of people who can work, and who have skills and experience, but now want government to take care of them. Sure, it's tough to try to make ends meet in this bad (and possibly deteriorating) economy and society, but reliance on government is not the answer.
Of course, it encourages people to give it up and go on SSD since that increases the number of those dependent, not on themselves or their families, but on the welfare-nanny state. More jobs for well paid bureacrats, and less money available to fund the private sector.
I have talked with someone in my town. He is forty two, intelligent, articulate, physically healthy, and has worked in good corporate jobs before. He has recently been accepted for SSD for a good sized monthly check. For what? Bi -polar! Do you believe that? Taxpayers will have to fork over their hard earned money (or borrow from China and Japan) to help support him for the rest of his life. Isn't that outrageous?

Verdandi wrote:
If you've been employed - even self-employed - within the past seven years you are probably eligible for SSDI, which is generally better than SSI. But you have to seriously prove you can't work, and it seems that SSA is getting stricter in dealing with applications as a lot of people who are leaving the workforce due to the economy are pinning their hopes on SSI or SSDI.
Bi-polar disorder can be a severe mental illness. If he does indeed have this condition, I'm not surprised he qualified for disability benefits. My aunt's bipolar and she would have been a liability working when she was having either a depressive period or a manic period. She was completely unemployable, couldn't even remember to eat or to go to bed. Who says it's for the rest of his life anyway? It's a life-long condition, but if he may well be fit to return to work at some point.


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13 Jun 2012, 8:06 am

cavendish wrote:
I have read that one third of all the Americans who lost their jobs between 2008 and 2011 have either applied for or gotten accepted into Social Security disability. What does this mean? The answer is that there are a whole lot of people who can work, and who have skills and experience, but now want government to take care of them. Sure, it's tough to try to make ends meet in this bad (and possibly deteriorating) economy and society, but reliance on government is not the answer.
Of course, it encourages people to give it up and go on SSD since that increases the number of those dependent, not on themselves or their families, but on the welfare-nanny state. More jobs for well paid bureacrats, and less money available to fund the private sector.
I have talked with someone in my town. He is forty two, intelligent, articulate, physically healthy, and has worked in good corporate jobs before. He has recently been accepted for SSD for a good sized monthly check. For what? Bi -polar! Do you believe that? Taxpayers will have to fork over their hard earned money (or borrow from China and Japan) to help support him for the rest of his life. Isn't that outrageous?


Hey maybe you should quit trolling every thread asking about SSI with your, rhetoric about how horrible people who need financial help are. Seriously shut the hell up with this crap or take it to the politics forum because apparently its ok to talk crap about people on welfare and or applying for welfare there. But I doubt someone asking about if they should apply or not in the General Discussion forum is looking for someone to bring them down with their right wing rhetoric.

And considering Bi Polar disorder is a form of depression and depression can be very severe and disabling yes I do belive that....though I am suprised since it seems SSI is set up so the worse you disability is the harder it is for you to get on it. Why because for people struggling with mental illness all the steps required to get on it are freaking difficult. Yeah paper work ,stress, more paper work having to deal with rude people trying to prove your mentally ill but not having the right words to describe things correctly is great for a mentally ill person applying for SSI. Then of course having them digging for any reason not to approve you and well if you're not very assertive like me then you're really screwed. Also some 'Taxpayers' have no problem paying taxes or any issue with the fact that some of that money goes to help others don't attempt to speak for everyone who pays taxes, because not all of them are as hateful as you towards those who are down and out in life. And its not as if peopel fork over all their money for taxes, though I am sure the right wingers would love to take every sent the poor make for compensation for the huge burden we've apparently plauged the country with.


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abyssquick
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13 Jun 2012, 8:12 am

cavendish wrote:
He has recently been accepted for SSD for a good sized monthly check. For what? Bi -polar! Do you believe that? Taxpayers will have to fork over their hard earned money (or borrow from China and Japan) to help support him for the rest of his life. Isn't that outrageous?


I'm not sure - but I have met people on SSDI / SSI who see perfectly capable of working, or who take it for seemingly isolated reasons. But each circumstance is different, also -

I have a somewhat complicated situation.

- I have heart-block - I've had a pacemaker since I was 20. I have a few physical limitations due to that. I rarely have access to a cardiologist due to insurance issues. My condition will get worse with time, more dependent on the machine. I have paid out-of-pocket for 3 years now ($400/ every 6 months) to make sure my heart is OK.
- I have asperger's - which limits my processing speed in social situations. I get fired from jobs for social / political / performance issues.
- I have ADHD which has impaired my focus substantially.
- I can't take most medicines because I tend to be either hypersensitive to them (asperger's) or are barred from them for safety issues (due to heart condition). I'm scared to try new drugs in general, based on past experience.
- I've had circumstantial depression as a result of much of this, the last few years.

I tend to avoid doctors because of bad experiences with medications.

I feel like I have given a great deal of energy into attempting to make my own way. I don't feel like I'm one of those people who shouldn't use the program- if it's not for me - who is it for? People with physical impairments only? Isn't it a basic concept, in the asperger's community, that mental / social limitations are just as disabling? Or do we not really believe this?

I do feel guilty for considering the idea - and my intention isn't to get money. It's simply to not be a burden to others around me. I fully intend to do things with my professional life. I just require support to give me that chance. I know already that I would not be dependent on it.



Last edited by abyssquick on 13 Jun 2012, 8:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

cavendish
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13 Jun 2012, 8:14 am

You have been blessed in growing up in the great country of America. You have so many opportunties here, that a great many people throughout the world can only dream of. Society screwed you over? Welcome to the real world!
Do you have real problems to deal with? Sure, but don't give up hope, and don't rely on other people or large institutions to take care of you. As Colin Powell once said, "Get mad , but then get over it" Why don't you hop on the Internet, and figure out some way to make money without the stresses of a regular job?




Sweetleaf wrote:
I think I kind of know how you feel...I mean my main issue is not that I absolutely cannot work...I mean any of my friends or close family knows I can do what one would decribe as 'work' its more a matter of not being able to function normally on a job which screws me up. For instance if I start getting too anxious or stressed I need a minute...well you can't always have a minute at a job. Not to mention they don't like it if I can't keep up with the work load and typically I am too 'slow' also I've had the term 'mental' thrown at me....Last job I had they decided I was too slow and mental, apparently I walked away when they where still giving instructions...It was loud in there I thought the dude was done....I mean crap, I guess I just bother people or freak them out.

So I am considering SSI as well...as for society, I say screw em, why should you feel bad about yourself just because you haven't lived up to society? I mean the way I see it society pretty much screwed me over so I should not feel bad about considering SSI. I know there is a lot of political BS out there but it is not 'wrong' to apply for SSI if you neeed financial help and so go for it. I mean people pay taxes and some of that tax money is supposed to go to helping the citizens of the country so try not to let all the rhetoric against welfare bring you down. If I had more money I would gladly pay taxes knowing it might go to some peoples SSI.



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13 Jun 2012, 8:34 am

abyssquick wrote:
I do feel guilty for considering the idea - and my intention isn't to get money. It's simply to not be a burden to others around me. I fully intend to do things with my professional life. I just require support to give me that chance. I know already that I would not be dependent on it.


This is normal, but you don't have anything to feel guilty about. For one, you paid into the system with your payroll taxes when you worked. For another, you have to take care of yourself. If this is what you need to do, then do it.

I am sorry if my earlier post was disheartening, as I was not trying to discourage you. Applying for SSI and SSDI is like the exact opposite of a job interview - you have to sell yourself as impossible to employ. People do it all the time, and a lot of it depends on who looks at your application and how well it's put together. If it gets to appeal, then it depends on the judge who sees you more than anything else.

Anyway, like I said, there may be state services that can assist you with applying, but you also need to advocate for yourself in the process, at least to some extent.



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13 Jun 2012, 8:38 am

cavendish wrote:
You have been blessed in growing up in the great country of America. You have so many opportunties here, that a great many people throughout the world can only dream of. Society screwed you over? Welcome to the real world!
Do you have real problems to deal with? Sure, but don't give up hope, and don't rely on other people or large institutions to take care of you. As Colin Powell once said, "Get mad , but then get over it" Why don't you hop on the Internet, and figure out some way to make money without the stresses of a regular job?


Yeah yeah, I've heard it all I should be greatful for growing up in such a capitalistic society that I can't keep up with and blessed? :lol: now that's funny, and no its not help knowing its partially my countries fault a lot of the rest of the world is in the mess it's in....Yeah society did screw me over, the real world sucks and I can hardly function in general let alone at some competitive job. So what the hell do you expect me to do just lay down and die somewhere or do what I can to try and get a little bit of money to live on? You think I want help from our incompetent government? hell no but am i going to refuse to take advantage of help offered so I can hope to die of malnutrition or freezing in the winter when I have nothing to live on in the next few years? I am sure the taxpayers would be greatful for having less of a burden and all but if that's how they are screw em.

Also unlike some people I kind of fail at life so how the hell am I going to randomly figure out some way to make money with the internet?


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Last edited by Sweetleaf on 13 Jun 2012, 8:54 am, edited 3 times in total.

Mummy_of_Peanut
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13 Jun 2012, 8:39 am

Views on the rights and wrongs of state benefits is more appropriate for PPR. Cavendish, if you wish a debate on such matters, please start a thread there. This thread is quickly deteriorating and is close to becoming locked, which would be unfair on the OP, who is seeking advice.


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13 Jun 2012, 10:48 am

Some people still don't understand SSI/SSD. It isn't free money. You pay into the system with every paycheck you get. Think of it as a savings that's available for when you've become disabled or retired. A lot of people die without collecting their rightly earned SSI/SSD so it's insulting to think it's just a handout. It's not.



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13 Jun 2012, 10:50 am

redrobin62 wrote:
Some people still don't understand SSI/SSD. It isn't free money. You pay into the system with every paycheck you get. Think of it as a savings that's available for when you've become disabled or retired. A lot of people die without collecting their rightly earned SSI/SSD so it's insulting to think it's just a handout. It's not.


SSI is a form of welfare, SSD not so much...but I dont see it as a 'handout' I see it as help for people who need help, I don't think there should be any shame in that.


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abyssquick
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13 Jun 2012, 1:11 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Anyway, like I said, there may be state services that can assist you with applying, but you also need to advocate for yourself in the process, at least to some extent.


Should I get a lawyer? (I can't afford one, ironically. So I never pondered it seriously.) I talked to one about SSDI and he had a very "us" (Me, saying I am disabled) vs. "them" (government = I'm not disabled by default) mentality that I did not fully understand. It seems that these judges at hearings aren't interested in helping people with psychological [invisible] disabilites - and that any doctors the govt' sends you to for evaluation will only find you not disabled. Like it's a battle of some sort. I'm not good at advocating, because of my fickleness - if someone says I'm not disabled and I'm likely to believe them, or at least not dispute it. That's the aspergers irony.

I will be getting a fuller, more recent evaluation of my asperger's and other conditions. Just to help show these things in a recent light. I hope that will help.

I'm still too embarassed to tell anyone in my life, right now. People keep offering to lend me money, or wondering why I don't just go out and "get a job" ... and I'm feeling so overwhelmed by it. I don't want to let people down anymore. I owe too much already, and the feeling of having to owe any more is nauseating.



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13 Jun 2012, 1:50 pm

There are lawyers who are meant explicitly for these sorts of situations. They expect to be paid out of your lump sum when you get approved, not beforehand.

From what I've told, you should just about always get a lawyer at least for an appeal, and before an appeal you should still almost always get one. I'm currently looking for a good lawyer for my application.



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13 Jun 2012, 1:51 pm

You can't get on SS without a disability or mental health problem or medical problem. But maybe all those 1/3 of the population has some sort of disability so they used SS as their back up tool. But I have also read that more people are on welfare, foodstamps, and other programs to help them get by in life because they can't find a job due to the economy and they run out of unemployment I assume. So either way takes peoples tax money except unemployment.

You seem to be one of those people who is bias about SS about how it should work but yet you tell someone on here to get on it and earn his own money while on it without actually having a job. :?





cavendish wrote:
I have read that one third of all the Americans who lost their jobs between 2008 and 2011 have either applied for or gotten accepted into Social Security disability. What does this mean? The answer is that there are a whole lot of people who can work, and who have skills and experience, but now want government to take care of them. Sure, it's tough to try to make ends meet in this bad (and possibly deteriorating) economy and society, but reliance on government is not the answer.
Of course, it encourages people to give it up and go on SSD since that increases the number of those dependent, not on themselves or their families, but on the welfare-nanny state. More jobs for well paid bureacrats, and less money available to fund the private sector.
I have talked with someone in my town. He is forty two, intelligent, articulate, physically healthy, and has worked in good corporate jobs before. He has recently been accepted for SSD for a good sized monthly check. For what? Bi -polar! Do you believe that? Taxpayers will have to fork over their hard earned money (or borrow from China and Japan) to help support him for the rest of his life. Isn't that outrageous?





Verdandi wrote:
If you've been employed - even self-employed - within the past seven years you are probably eligible for SSDI, which is generally better than SSI. But you have to seriously prove you can't work, and it seems that SSA is getting stricter in dealing with applications as a lot of people who are leaving the workforce due to the economy are pinning their hopes on SSI or SSDI.


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13 Jun 2012, 2:50 pm

abyssquick wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Anyway, like I said, there may be state services that can assist you with applying, but you also need to advocate for yourself in the process, at least to some extent.


Should I get a lawyer? (I can't afford one, ironically. So I never pondered it seriously.) I talked to one about SSDI and he had a very "us" (Me, saying I am disabled) vs. "them" (government = I'm not disabled by default) mentality that I did not fully understand. It seems that these judges at hearings aren't interested in helping people with psychological [invisible] disabilites - and that any doctors the govt' sends you to for evaluation will only find you not disabled. Like it's a battle of some sort. I'm not good at advocating, because of my fickleness - if someone says I'm not disabled and I'm likely to believe them, or at least not dispute it. That's the aspergers irony.

I will be getting a fuller, more recent evaluation of my asperger's and other conditions. Just to help show these things in a recent light. I hope that will help.

I'm still too embarassed to tell anyone in my life, right now. People keep offering to lend me money, or wondering why I don't just go out and "get a job" ... and I'm feeling so overwhelmed by it. I don't want to let people down anymore. I owe too much already, and the feeling of having to owe any more is nauseating.


Tuttle answered but I'll add more detail:

A lawyer may advise you to go ahead and file for SSDI/SSI on your own and come back when you are at the appeal stage.

Your payments start counting from the time you apply for disability benefits. This is what attorneys are paid out of. Very few people who apply for disability can afford an attorney in the usual way, so there's a system set up that allows attorneys to receive 25% of your lump sum payment.

Another thing is that SSA might have you evaluated by doctors they pick as well. You don't need to have a thorough past medical history if you can get a current one going along with your application, plus any assessment SSA does for you.

It is not true that the judges are not interested in psychological and neurological disabilities. People get on SSI and SSDI for all kinds of disabilities. A particular judge you get may be more or less sympathetic toward your particular problems, but it's not a systemic thing. Also, the doctors will not always say that you are not disabled. One person I know who had a better experience than I did was sent to see someone whose recommendations practically guaranteed his approval for SSDI after the person he saw at SSA decided he looked like he was in serious need of assistance. Said person had depression and ADHD.



abyssquick
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14 Jun 2012, 8:24 am

I will contact a lawyer in my area for the hearing then. I feel a little better knowing a human will talk with me, and make the decision. I don't expect anyone with social/psychological disabilities gets approved through the impersonal part of the process...

I still don't have the courage to tell my loved ones. I'm ashamed of having to have 'failed' as I see it. Everyone in my life only sees the broadband connections, and looks at my potential through my strengths. They don't ever see the stuff in the background running on a 28k modem... I'm going to feel bad about it for some time, I think. But it will give me the opportunity I need to build something better.

I've dealt with people for years now, long enough to know I'm seriously impaired. I just don't feel like I should be. I can imagine hypothetical people, hypothetical jobs, wherein I may do just fine - but there's a way the world works, and the reality may be that these circumstances and tolerances just don't exist.

Verdandi wrote:
abyssquick wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Anyway, like I said, there may be state services that can assist you with applying, but you also need to advocate for yourself in the process, at least to some extent.


Should I get a lawyer? (I can't afford one, ironically. So I never pondered it seriously.) I talked to one about SSDI and he had a very "us" (Me, saying I am disabled) vs. "them" (government = I'm not disabled by default) mentality that I did not fully understand. It seems that these judges at hearings aren't interested in helping people with psychological [invisible] disabilites - and that any doctors the govt' sends you to for evaluation will only find you not disabled. Like it's a battle of some sort. I'm not good at advocating, because of my fickleness - if someone says I'm not disabled and I'm likely to believe them, or at least not dispute it. That's the aspergers irony.

I will be getting a fuller, more recent evaluation of my asperger's and other conditions. Just to help show these things in a recent light. I hope that will help.

I'm still too embarassed to tell anyone in my life, right now. People keep offering to lend me money, or wondering why I don't just go out and "get a job" ... and I'm feeling so overwhelmed by it. I don't want to let people down anymore. I owe too much already, and the feeling of having to owe any more is nauseating.


Tuttle answered but I'll add more detail:

A lawyer may advise you to go ahead and file for SSDI/SSI on your own and come back when you are at the appeal stage.

Your payments start counting from the time you apply for disability benefits. This is what attorneys are paid out of. Very few people who apply for disability can afford an attorney in the usual way, so there's a system set up that allows attorneys to receive 25% of your lump sum payment.

Another thing is that SSA might have you evaluated by doctors they pick as well. You don't need to have a thorough past medical history if you can get a current one going along with your application, plus any assessment SSA does for you.

It is not true that the judges are not interested in psychological and neurological disabilities. People get on SSI and SSDI for all kinds of disabilities. A particular judge you get may be more or less sympathetic toward your particular problems, but it's not a systemic thing. Also, the doctors will not always say that you are not disabled. One person I know who had a better experience than I did was sent to see someone whose recommendations practically guaranteed his approval for SSDI after the person he saw at SSA decided he looked like he was in serious need of assistance. Said person had depression and ADHD.



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14 Jun 2012, 9:06 am

abyssquick wrote:
I will contact a lawyer in my area for the hearing then. I feel a little better knowing a human will talk with me, and make the decision. I don't expect anyone with social/psychological disabilities gets approved through the impersonal part of the process...


They do, actually. It's more how you fill out your function report as well as how anyone SSA sends you to see evaluates you.

Quote:
I still don't have the courage to tell my loved ones. I'm ashamed of having to have 'failed' as I see it. Everyone in my life only sees the broadband connections, and looks at my potential through my strengths. They don't ever see the stuff in the background running on a 28k modem... I'm going to feel bad about it for some time, I think. But it will give me the opportunity I need to build something better.

I've dealt with people for years now, long enough to know I'm seriously impaired. I just don't feel like I should be. I can imagine hypothetical people, hypothetical jobs, wherein I may do just fine - but there's a way the world works, and the reality may be that these circumstances and tolerances just don't exist.


I wish I could tell you something so you didn't feel ashamed. You didn't "fail." It sounds like you've actually done fairly well given that you had an uphill battle where NTs would have a smoother course. It's okay to stop and try to take care of yourself.