A good old Aspergers rant about NTs

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Well, there are essentially two groups of these "mean" people:

GROUP 1: Mean people, NT and Aspie alike, who are mean or rude to most people without caring. These people have a "track record" of being mean, and it's not personal, or related to just one person. These people are indiscriminately mean.

GROUP 2: NTs whose hostility comes directly from their disgust at an Aspie. Most NTs are not this way, BUT those who are specifically feel justified because they can pick up that the Aspie is different, and feel justified in treating him like crap.

The people in Group 2 would not be considered "mean people" by most NTs, because they're not usually mean to their fellow NTs. Their behavior is specifically in response to their disdain for the Aspie. Many in this group feel they're justified, that there's something wrong with him (the Aspie), and therefore it's the Aspie who is being difficult.

those aren't just regular NT. They're straight up bad people to boot.

Thanks for replying MsNattyable. I don't know if I didn't articulate well enough, or if you didn't understand.

What I was saying is that I understand you, and many NTs, are not like that. But what you (and those other NTs who are not like that) don't seem to grasp is that much of our angst comes from NTs who are. To say, "some people are just jerks," while true, sort of diminishes the issue. Yes, some people are jerks/mean/hostile/rude in a general sense. Still, others are this way specifically toward Aspies because they pick up on the Aspie's differences and feel that these differences justify their being hostile, exclusionary, or downputting. These NTs are not jerks in the general sense. To fellow NTs, they seem like nice, normal people.

So while you aren't the type of NT to turn hostile on an Aspie for being different, some NTs are. AND, most importantly, these NTs are not really jerks in a gerneral, overall sense, so it's really only the Aspie who sees this side of them, who brings it out. So while you, MsNattyable, have dealt with your fair share of jerks, mean people, bad-day types, the Aspie has to deal with all of those same people AS WELL AS deal with the NTs who are normally friendly and polite but do a reverse course specifically toward the Aspie.



By "NTs like yourself," I specifically meant NTs who are not hostile toward Aspies, but don't make the connection that much of our plight is dealing with NTs that are, and more importantly, who would not necessarily be considered jerks in the general sense. To say, "some people are a**holes," while true, downplays the reality that these hostile NTs are hostile specifically because they feel "weirded out" by the Aspie. To you, however, they often seem like normal, well-rounded people. This is because you, also being NT, will never see this side of them the way we do.

So when you make platitudes like "everyone has encountered mean people in their life, who cares what they think? Be a stonger person," etc., you're ignoring the reality that for every mean person you personally encountered in your life, the Aspie has encountered those same mean people. In addition to those general mean people that all humans encounter, the Aspie has an additional set of bad encounters with people who are responding negatively toward him because the neurology clash. So Aspies, on the whole, have more negative encounters with people than the average NT. That's the main point I'm trying to get across, and I think NTs like yourself who have never experienced this fail to comprehend it, and then gloss over this with your platitudes and 'empowering' mantras of "some people are just jerks, it's not specific to a group," you're missing this key point.

And it's interesting to note here, that because of this miscommunication between you and I in the last post, you feel it's "kinda insulting." I respect your honesty, thank you for sharing your feelings. But you see, this miscommunication, whether it's my fault for not articulating properly or your fault for not comprehending what I was saying, you still have feelings of offense. This is quite common in my experience. People misunderstand something I've said, and it seems that to them misunderstanding/uncertainty = being offended. You took offense at something that you simply misunderstood. And many people "don't know why they feel this way," but it's all the excuse they need to justify their hostility. Ask yourself, why did you take offense, rather than seek clarity??

continued...

This is exactly what I mean by that second group of people the Aspie must deal with that you don't experience. You saw how quick they were to judge him and dismiss him. If he wasn't your boyfriend, you'd probably never have seen this side of them, so you never would have even realized how your friends could be. If your boyfriend was just your friend, and he told you that your friends were overly critical and treated him like a lesser person ("not good enough"), you most likely wouldn't have given it a second thought, saying, "nonsense, they're my friends, I know them very well, they're not like that." But because he is your boyfriend, you see it (sort of).



Again, miscommunication. I'm not labeling everyone in my daily life that way. Just some people, like your friends who automatically disliked your boyfriend. These people have no problem with you, or other NTs. Their dislike is specifically because of the neurology clash. Since you are a fellow NT, you don't experience this side of them and can't relate when Aspies try to explain it.



I don't doubt that you sincerely love and care for your boyfriend. However, you actually aren't empathizing with him, you are sympathizing with him. You see his plight, you see it's real, you can tell he struggles, you genuinely care and feel for him. But you don't actually comprehend the plight itself, as evidenced by your misunderstanding of what I was trying to explain. You don't actually feel and experience what he does.



To try to use your example. Let's say the white man isn't racist. Let's say he as a group of white friends he gets along with who are, but he doesn't know they are because race never comes up. Then one day the African interacts with these racist friends, and they mistreat the African because of their prejudice. The African then tries to tell the white man, "these friends of yours are racist, they treated me like crap, you don't understand." The white man doesn't get it because he's never seen this side of his friends and says, "but they're my friends, they're not like that. And besides, you can't say all whites are racist, and we experience racism too..." The white man goes off on a tangent here, ignoring the fact that the African is specifically talking about his group of friends. While the white man's generalizations are correct, he's failing to actually see the African is talking about his friends specifically. Because these friends never struck the white man as racist, because they've always been good people to him, he fails to grasp what the African is saying and goes on about generalizations that, while true, are not addressing the issue at hand. I think this applies to you and me in these posts.

Anyway, MsNattyable, I'd like to ask a favor of you, and I mean this. Ask your boyfriend to read my posts. Don't cloud his judgment by saying "some loser on Wrong Planet said..." but ask him simply to read through them. Don't give him your opinions, yet. Don't alter his view. I'd sincerely like to know what your boyfriend thinks of what I've written.

He may agree completely, he may disagree completely, he may not understand. I don't know, but seriously, have him read this, don't influence his opinion, and then, after he's read what I've written, see what he thinks and post it.

Lets just hope there isn't a RightPlanet.net where it is ok to rant at Aspies...

I try not to think of a divide , in much the way I try not to think of people by race and gender rather as individuals.

I find this helps me because when I get upset by someone I think of them as one a**hole rather than representing the majority.

And if not feeling good about NT bashing makes me a troll then I better get back under my bridge....

But there is a place for NTs to rant about aspies. It's called AssPartners. Excuse me, ASPartners.

oh...better not tell my wife

This is the root of what I was getting at. I'm not saying they're "bad people," per se, but here is why pointing out your neurotypicality is imperative. This idea of their not knowing how to react always seems to equal hostility/disrespect/shunning of the Aspie. This is specifically due to the neurology clash, and that's why other NTs, like yourself, often fail to see or comprehend it when we encounter these people. I understand you see it now, and you were never that way, but even you seem to contradict yourself.

You say some people are just jerks and all people experience this. Yes, that's true. But some "jerks" are only jerks to us specifically because of the neurological clash. Then you say, well, those jerks aren't really jerks, they're not "bad people," and that's absolutely correct FOR YOU because you are NT like them. Then you go back to the mantra that everyone experiences this and some people are jerks in general. Yes, true, but I'm not talking about general jerks, I'm talking specifically about these "bad people" that are not jerks in general but specifically because of their aversion to the Aspie. And even you have an unwillingness to comprehend because they're not "bad people" to you. You can't fully see it, and you're hesitant because you know they're not jerks in the general sense. I fully understand your perspective, I'm just trying to show you mine. I think you almost get it, but there's still that lapse back into giving you fellow NTs a pass of sorts, saying they're not really "bad people."



For all the reasons I just stated above. Those "bad people" can't be compreheneded as "bad people" to you specifically because you and they are NT. That's why your NT-ness needs to be pointed out. To help you as an individual understand. I'm actually not labeling "people," rather, I'm labeling you, an individual MsNattyable, as NT.



That's the contradiction I was talking about. First, they're not really "bad people," they just don't understand. Then you shift back into the general "some people are just like that."



Maybe there's a communication problem among us again. Do you feel that I felt attacked? I don't feel attacked at all. And I hope you don't feel attacked, that's not the point of any of this at all. Do you feel attacked?

I started this thread while I was feeling like a meltdown.

Today I feel really good and the world seems different.

Take it for what it was a rant to let off steam.

See, man, the cool thing about putting any ideas out there is that you'll never know what might come from it. Good or bad, things you didn't even see coming can spring up. And even though you started this thread, oftentimes one idea from you builds on another idea from a second person. Then a third person builds off the second person's idea, etc.