Shutting up

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singularity
Deinonychus

Joined: 28 Mar 2012
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11 Jul 2012, 2:08 pm

So you don't really want to talk?

ialdabaoth
Snowy Owl

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11 Jul 2012, 2:15 pm

singularity wrote:

So you don't really want to talk?

I don't know. I want to talk, but I'm tired of wanting to talk. I'm tired of wanting.

"Cries for help" are pathetic.

singularity
Deinonychus

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11 Jul 2012, 2:19 pm

I'm sorry. I really wish I could say something that would make a difference. I'm tired of wanting too.

Skeptical_Mario
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11 Jul 2012, 4:20 pm

I don't know if we can change the world, but if you talk long enough you might find someone who understands you. If you shut up, that will never happen.

ialdabaoth
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11 Jul 2012, 4:30 pm

Skeptical_Mario wrote:

I don't know if we can change the world, but if you talk long enough you might find someone who understands you. If you shut up, that will never happen.

It's usually just at the point that people understand me, that they tell me that they can't handle me anymore.

So I'm not particularly enthusiastic about the idea of being heard.

It's like being trapped underwater when the air above you is poisonous - you know rationally that you need to stay down, and that if you go to the surface and breathe you'll die... but eventually your lungs start burning and you can't help it.

CyborgUprising
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11 Jul 2012, 11:50 pm

ialdabaoth wrote:

Look. If you beat someone enough whenever they try to get help, they're going to stop asking for help.

If someone won't ask for help, they don't deserve to be helped.

Problem. f***ing. Solved.

If this was directed at me, I'm not sure why. I've never beaten you, so I don't understand (if you are commenting at me). This is why I should probably give up trying to be nice to anyone. It seems to never work on WP.

A_floating_moon
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12 Jul 2012, 7:27 am

ialdabaoth,
I often feel something very similar to what you just described and think about all of those other things you mentioned. I felt that way in day-to-day group activities/socializing in college. There was no point in speaking, not that I was brave or capable enough to speak in every situation even if I DID want to. I also want to make friends, but I don't feel enough enthusiasm to continue the conversations I start online and I don't have enough excitement in me and confidence to message back some people and try to actually meet them in person. That last thing I mentioned is a bit different from the first, but it's all similarly connected.

I've been thinking, for at least the past week, about posting here. Just to "rant". I thought about what I'd say. I thought about what responses I'd probably get, if I got any... I did think about the up-side, the possible positive outcomes.
Maybe someone would empathize AND they would happen to know some "solution". This solution wouldn't make all of my problems go away, but maybe they'd mention the thing I hadn't thought of... Maybe they'd have a specific action they could recommend to me. Now, I don't mean an action like "talk it over with a psychologist" or "get out and do something you love".
Maybe I could get together with someone with 'similar' thoughts... ..

I've typed or thought up replies to people on here, but I often conclude it is better to hit the "x" on my tab rather than the "submit" button. I don't know how relevant or helpful any of this is to.. anyone. But, I do know that I like replies and reading all of this stuff obsessively.

There have been many times I've been wrong. There's a lot more out there to discover. I think it's best to not give up, but instead at least let yourself occasionally be heard. Keep looking. I do this for the chance that one day I'll really get something big out of it.

Surfman
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12 Jul 2012, 8:47 am

ialdabaoth wrote:

Nothing is worth saying or doing, and yet I have this sick compulsion to try to communicate or accomplish it anyways.

Here you believe nothing is worth saying or doing. About 10-15 years ago I too held this as a baseline mantra. I withdrew because of scars like you too. The 1000knives eh?

What is to say? What is to do?

Hmmmm

have you been reading Sartre?

Go lick your wounds oh quiet one, people are waiting to play and fight if you are ever wanting, in time, the great healer, you will again seek communion. And then be possibly hurt again? But maybe you just keep doing the same thing, with the same people... like a type of flagellation? I dont know...

I did the same too I think. Then I could withdraw self righteous in my suffering...

I have now poured myself into my surfing, and soared beyond my peers in the last 5 years. This opened me up to admiration for consisitent effort, and acceptance on ability at 49 yrs old. I dont say much in the water, I let my surfing do the talking for me.

Sometimes I think surfing is not worth doing, or me being a surfer worth being, then I see beautiful waves peeling through the bay, and I know that somethings actually are worth doing, and somethings actually are worth being.... its just finding which ones are right for you

Find your art or passion or special interest. Be your hearts desire, and speak your piece

Last edited by Surfman on 14 Jul 2012, 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Projectile
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12 Jul 2012, 9:05 am

Help me, you know you can't

...

go and do something nice for somebody

watch the secret ..and if you can't look past the cheesiness of the secret or you prefer to read try 'Quantum Healing'

St Johns wort is a herb in pill form that i take. it stops me from getting too low.. also 5HP

bEST OF LUCK WITH YOUR HAPPINESS BRO

analyser23
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12 Jul 2012, 9:42 am

I have felt/thought in a similar way, and in fact still struggle with it all at times, but...

This might sound silly, but honestly, the best solution I have come across was when I picked up a Bible this year and read the Gospels. It has made the way I see this World bearable. I come from a very skeptical, purely scientific background, too.

DerStadtschutz
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12 Jul 2012, 9:57 am

ialdabaoth wrote:

singularity wrote:

You can talk here.
I'm not trying to argue with you...but maybe it's your perceptions and lousy sense of self-worth that are making you believe that people listen to you out of duty or pity, or that you're being mocked.
What is it that you want to talk about? Why do you feel you have nothing to say?

We live in a culture and species where everyone - even you and I - evaluate statements based on how true they 'feel', rather than how well they match up to evidence. Even evidence is vetted by how we feel, and how we want to believe the world is. There is no "truth" and there are no "facts", only different forms of consensus and pressure to conform to one or the other.

Everyone knows this. Here on this forum, people complain about it constantly, but they never really grip it fully, because the implications are too bleak. Out in the 'real world', people either exploit it or are exploited by it, but no one really talks about it because too many people are invested in protecting the illusion that it isn't so.

Six million Jews and two million other "life unworthy of life" were killed because someone decided they were sub-human. Did we prove them wrong by talking about it? No, we proved them wrong by having half the world try to kill the other half.

Tens of millions of blacks were kept as subhuman chattel because someone decided it was more economical. Did we prove them wrong by talking about it? No, we proved them wrong by half of a country trying to kill the other half.

If you're weak, why bother talking? You'll just get stomped by someone who wants to shut you up. If you're strong, why bother talking? See, want, take, have.

We live in a socioeconomic system where people like me should just shut up and starve to death, because why should anyone deserve a chance to live if they can't afford it? We aren't running a charity here, folks.

We live in a culture where Snooki from Jersey Shore is famous, and hundreds of compassionate and insightful people in my community alone are wallowing in poverty and irrelevance. Where Donald Trump is a billionaire who has the ear of half of the political apparatus of the most powerful hegemony on the planet, while people who try to ask for a better world get tear-gas canisters to the face.

What the f**k is the point of talking about any of it? Can you fix any of this? Can you wave your hand and have money appear in my bank account? Even if you can, can you wash off the third-world exploitation that made that money happen? Can you provide me a meal? And if you can, can you do so without killing the planet, destroying some third-world country no one cares about, or forcing people to work long hours with no breaks and no medical care under near-slavery conditions?

You can't. And if you could, you wouldn't - because anyone who is the kind of person who could acquire power to change things is not the kind of person who would want to.

You make a lot of excellent points, dude. Points that I've been thinking about myself, actually. It definitely is sickening, and I don't blame you for feeling the way you do about the world around you one bit.

DerStadtschutz
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12 Jul 2012, 10:02 am

analyser23 wrote:

I have a question for you, and this is not meant to be any sort of religious argument or debate or anything(trust me, i could go on for hours and hours, but i'm not going to here, so please don't start shoving it down my throat either, but...)How does reading the bible make you feel any better about the world around you? Is it because you feel like you have something better to look forward to after all the suffering we witness on earth? Or is it because you just know god is there, like some parent watching over you, or what? I'm just curious, because I personally don't see how that changes any of what's still happening and causing the bad feelings in the first place. I don't understand how that can just go away.

I'm probably gonna hate myself for this, but I feel like having that sort of attitude("it's okay if the world is terrible because the afterlife will be nice") does nothing to help and possibly makes things worse. It gives people a reason not to care, so they do nothing to change anything for the better.

1000Knives
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12 Jul 2012, 10:12 am

ialdabaoth wrote:

If you're weak, why bother talking? You'll just get stomped by someone who wants to shut you up. If you're strong, why bother talking? See, want, take, have.

This is why I've decided to become strong as possible. When you're strong, people at the very least listen. Take Switzerland for example, they mind their own business completely, but nobody screws with them, as their country is basically invasion proof. They decided to be strong, and not weak. Yes, being strong is hard, but the alternative is worse.

Surfman
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14 Jul 2012, 9:20 am

I guess he's decided to shut up?

Total isolation doesnt sound like fun to me, no matter how bad the world is. Even slaves on the plantation sang their songs, how else could they win their freedom??? By being mute???

When the star men return for their gold, naught would be in vain, if we enjoy and are entertained in the process toward oblivion

its just a ride

analyser23
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22 Jul 2012, 9:01 pm

DerStadtschutz wrote:

analyser23 wrote:

I didn't see this until just now.

It is hard for me to explain.... I am fairly new to my beliefs here although I have been exposed to Christianity my whole Life. I just really had this great feeling in me while reading the gospels. Learning about the kind of person Jesus was, and how nothing phased him - he was able to remain loving and understanding and caring and faithful through anything that was thrown at him. Now THAT is a strong person!! He has become a real inspiration to me. It does also make me feel like life is "bigger" than what we experience. There is more out there, and we are not confined purely to here forever. It is nice to feel that God is with us, and nice to believe that even after everything that there will be an afterlife to enjoy. The gospels inspire me to become the person I truly want to be. I get very upset at how horrible and manipulative so much of this World can be, and it is nice to have an inspiration who is strong in their goodness.
As for this attitude meaning we will do nothing to help others now, this is not true. If you are a good person you will not be able to stop yourself from doing good things. Even if it is just one person at a time that we help, we all count

Faith, hope and Love really are three very important traits for enjoying one's Life in my opinion.

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