Trying to find a cure is idiotic

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Even if some forms of autism can be "cured", a cure for autism cannot exist as research has already proven that autism is no one thing.

That's completely not the point. The point is that research results can have unexpected value in regards to other conditions and these results cannot be predicted. Hence the importance of research of all conditions.



Then according to your logic, Autism is a blanket term for several different disorders and therefore doesn't truly exist. Either way, it doesn't lower the importance of the research currently being conducted.

Autism is a blanket term. You just learned that now? Scientists have known for a while that autism actually refers to hundreds of different conditions with some similar behaviors, a set of a behaviors cannot be assumed to be caused by the same physical conditions. It's a spectrum for a reason.

The goal exists to find a cure for Autism. The goal exists to find a cure Cancer. And the goal exists to find a cure for Epilepsy. So far there are only potential preventions, therapies and treatments depending on what is effective with each individual disorder/disease and depending on the specific form of those disorders/disease.

If a cure becomes available for skin cancer it is going to be a cure for cancer, regardless if it cures all forms of cancer or not, as there are hundreds of different types of cancer, specifically identified. If a cure for one form of Epilepsy is found such as Complex Partial Seizures it is going to be called a cure for Epilepsy, regardless if it cures other forms or not, and finally if a cure is found for regressive autism, it is going to be called a cure for autism whether or not it cures all other forms of autism or not.

In all cases, if only one form of each disorder/disease is cured, there will be additional research pursued to cure the other forms of the disorders/disease.

Those involved in research are 100% aware that there are many potential causal factors involved with the different forms of all three disorders/disease that may require different preventative measures, therapies, treatments, and potential cures.

The private and government organizations that support the research are not going to detail every form of Cancer that is known, every form of Epilepsy that is known, and every subgroup of autism is known, separately listing them in a mission statement for research into a cure for Cancer, Autism, or Epilepsy, or when the President states in a speech that he wants to continue to fund the "combating autism act". The general public doesn't have that kind of attention span or focus on detail.

While one can focus on a literal interpretation of the simple phrase, "a cure", these two words are used as a metaphor by many organizations in their concise mission statements per the goal of a cure, instead of describing potential hundreds of forms of a classification of a disorder/disease, and the complex research, milestones, and incremental achievements of benefits for those that struggle with the disorder/disease including potential increments of cure for different forms of these disorders/disease toward that general goal of a cure. Those that are interested in that level of detail can usually find it in other sections of the websites of these organizations.

Anyone that has gone to the research sections of Autism, Epilepsy, or Cancer organizations websites, and has done any reading, already has some understanding of the limitations and complexity of the research. It's an open book provided by many organizations, but those organizations cannot make anyone read those details if they do not want to.

Autism speaks details over 600 research grants awarded since the year 2006 on their website, at the link below. That organization is one of many organizations addressing neurological disorders that identifies a cure as a general goal in their mission statement.

One cannot hope to understand the details of that research, the milestones met, and incremental benefits that have been provided to those that struggle with autism spectrum disorders, without reading the details of the research, or the general descriptions provided in layman's terms each year in that organization and other organization's annual reports outlining the achievements of research that has been done.

http://www.autismspeaks.org/about-us/grant-search
http://www.autismspeaks.org/science/strategic-plan
http://www.autismspeaks.org/sites/default/files/documents/as_annual_report_2010-web_01.pdf

If one peruses this research, it is noteworthy that Autism Speaks provided 4% of the funding for research in the US, in the year 2010. The Simon's foundation provided almost three times as much funding as the private organization providing the greatest amount of funding for Autism research in the US. And finally, the government provided close to 335 million dollars of the 408 million that was funded for Autism Research in 2010, in the US, per the recent report provided by the IACC, Interagency Autism Coordinating Committee.

Interestingly, in Autism Communities, Autism Speaks usually gets the lion share of attention per their 18 million dollars in funding research in 2010, as opposed to the rest of the 408 million dollars that was funded by other private and government organizations. Many of these organizations, private and governmental, per collaborative effort, provide funding for Autism Research. It's not uncommon to see 4 or 5 sources of funding for one research project.

And there are also individuals that contribute up to a million dollars or more, per specific research projects, that were not included in the report from the IACC, as it focused on the funding provided by major governmental and private organizations. But one can see these sources identified when one peruses actual research publications.

The thing is the relationship between the forms of cancer is completely different than the relatioships between the forms of autism. Cancers are very different from eachother on the surface, but similar on a fundamental level. Autistic behaviors are similar on a surface level, but can be completely different on the root level. All cancer is caused by overgrowth of mutant cells. Autism is not a physical condition. CDD and Rett syndrome appear to be very similar, but the cause is completely different. CDD can be compared to severe autism in it's later phases, but they are completely different in the cause.

blablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablabla
autism need to be cured blablablablablablablablablablablablablablabla autism need to be cured blablablablablablablablabla

It's just neurotypical syndrome that want to change everyone else, they want a perfect example of themself:

1. homosexuals
2. skin collor
3. females
4. ...
All is because neurotypicals put people with labels (DSM etc.)

And the funny thing is that autistic people even just follow the majority (neurotypicals).
blablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablabla

Last edited by paxfilosoof on 25 Aug 2012, 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Just let them be ignorant. Many autistic people maybe have a really hard disorder, but I definitely do not have that.
Many autistic people just want to feel pity for them, instead if they did do some research they would know that autism in many ways is being discriminated like homosexuals were, and that when autistic people are nurted good, they could be genius.

Cure is just a ridiculous way of neurotypicals way of thinking, they use it because they believe they're so important that they even can (will) change their own kids.
If you get a kid, you need to accept it how it is. You can't change someone else because you believe the other person is not what you think he/she should be.
And even with intense world theory, we could even prove that neurotypicals have a theory of lack in empathy and many other areas in the brain(when we nurture autistic people in the future in a normal way). They've always tried in history to change everyone else, this is what I believe to be a sign of neurotypical syndrome.

Let it be, don't worry to much, live your life and oppose the stupid idea of a cure. Idea of a cure is being propagated that autistic people even wanbt it, even it's just a stupid idea which come from low minded persons. And like you said, it's like curing femaleness...

I agree with what you are saying here, except for the statement that autism is not a physical condition, but it doesn't refute anything as far as the merit of the research targeted at the general goal of a cure, that is being done for either Cancer, Autism, or Epilepsy. They are all Disorders/Disease that have many identifiable forms that are specifically addressed by research.

There is a lung cancer foundation, and there is a breast cancer foundation, as these are two major forms of Cancer. A potential of a limited cure to some forms of breast cancer does not mean that all forms of breast cancer would be prevented/cured, or that any form of Lung Cancer would be prevented/cured, and those are only two of many forms. The potential causal factors including immune system dysfunction, hormonal influences, and genetic issues are addressed in Cancer research toward the general goal of a cure and they are also addressed in Autism research toward a general goal of a cure, although the disorders/disease and forms of the disorders/disease addressed are different.

Autism is diagnosed by behavioral impairments because there have been no effective definitive medical tests developed for diagnosis of autism spectrum disorders. However there is general consensus in Science that the conditions are at least in part caused by genetic/biological determinants. By Law, in the US, Autism Spectrum Disorders are defined as inherent physical disorders limiting brain function, and are classified as neurological disorders in the DSMIV and ICD10. So, while diagnosis is determined by behavioral determinants, Autism Spectrum Disorders are considered disorders of physical origin both by law in the US, and by DSMIV and ICD10 classification.

Schizophrenia has been argued as a potential neurodevelopmental disorder per classification rather than a mental illness for decades, and recent research continues to provide results moving in that direction, with some commonly shared genetic associations with Autism Spectrum Disorders.

Science continues to gain knowledge on both of these disorders/disease, and many others as a result of the general goal of cure for disorders/disease and the decades of research that have been accomplished toward those general goals. The general goal of Cure is a four letter word of hope to many individuals, that for decades, in part, has provided the motivation, funding, and achievement of results as documented in research across the globe, for many disorders/disease.

This "Cure" issue is and has been a major source of dissonance among some in the Autism Community, and apparently mostly a semantic one derived from different experiences and perspective of life that should be respected for those that hold different perspectives and life experiences. Cure is a four letter word of offense to some and one of hope for others. But, it is difficult for the general population to understand why one would be against a general research goal of cure for a neurological disorder, at least in the US. A big reason the politicians/and majority of taxpayers are willing to appropriate the 335 million annual dollars in government funding and the other 73 million annual dollars in private funding, just for the Autism Research in the US.

Autism Research is accomplished by over 1800 research scientists in 50 countries. They are trained scientists that have invested in many years of education to accomplish research goals, some of whom are on the autism spectrum, and have identified themselves as such, and likely many others that are on the broader autism phenotype. Some of those research scientists are members of this site.

Your perspective should be respected for your individual opinion, but neither you or I walk in the shoes of those that experience the difficulties you state you do not experience, so neither you or I can speak for their needs or desires, as neither you or I know what they are, until they are expressed whether it is through their words/nonverbal communication, through communication provided through technological adaptation, or the harsh reality that no one wants to see and most don't want to hear about for some individuals on the spectrum that express themselves, in part, by smearing and eating their own feces, or potentially life threatening self injury.

If one walked in those shoes, or were a parent of a child with that type of difficulty, it is possible that one's major focus in life, would be doing whatever it took to help their child and others like that child. And the flavor of cure might have a different taste. But it's impossible to say for sure until one actually walks in similar shoes.

I agree, but you can't judge that an autistic has a disorder because he/she does something "weird". Only you can ask the person, and if the person says that h/she is not defective than changing him is unfair.

The question is not what someone does, but why?
and I think self injury is not part because they have a disorder but because of overwhelming experience (painful, intense world theory)
When we teach children to cope it with in the future, we'll not have this problems any more I think.

This exchange highlights some of the misunderstanding regarding the specificity of autism as a diagnostic concept.

Pileo's logic is all wrong. Autism being a "blanket term" (try saying heterogeneous condition/diagnosis/whatever) doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I'm really trying to wrap my head around the depth of Pileo's misunderstanding. Is the implication that autism is either this general label OR something more along the lines of a virus sub-strain (in terms of specificity), and it's only "real" if the latter is true? As if we were all thinking/hoping/expecting it was the latter and will be surprised and disappointed to find that it is the former and therefore "not real"? Come on. No offense, but this is exactly the sort of thinking I expect from a child.

In terms of specificity, autism is best compared to intellectual disability. They're practically sister diagnoses in this regard, describing the same basic fault (significant neural dysfunction) in terms of intellect and emotion respectively. So, Ganondox's original post is fairly sound, although some of the details are a little mixed up.

Ultimately, the "validity" of diagnostic labels hinges on two questions: Does it describe reality accurately? and How does it serve those it's applied to? Keeping that in mind, there are very good reasons to develop relatively general clinical concepts. Think of how general "intellectual disability" is. Yet it conveys something important/useful about the individuals it describes.

The thought of "curing" intellectual disability has been mentioned in this thread. I can think of one way that this might be a valid pursuit. If technology advanced to the point where we could "locate" a mind trapped in a brain/body that prevented it from interacting with the world, and then somehow communicate with that mind and discuss the possibility of it being freed somehow...I can see some kind of way-out scenario like that happening pretty easily, in fact. However, when most people say "curing intellectual disability" I think they're talking about something like creating a mind where there (likely) isn't one...like wiring a mind from scratch. I have a very open mind, willing to hear and even make arguments about eugenics, but the thought of going into an empty skull and slapping some meat together to make a conscious, intelligent being makes me uncomfortable.

Do you realize that in this context it sounds like you're saying people should have the choice to bully aspies? Yes, I know you're talking about the choice to take a cure or not, but as Curiotical was talking about the way we're being asked to cure ourselves of something that (for some of us, anyway) is only a problem because others are intolerant, you ended up implying something you might not have intended. As for "killing ourselves" (our aspie selves) he was saying we shouldn't be expected to, and I agree. I don't know why that should make you think of abortion, though (I think we're all born here). It's more like assisted suicide, which also seems like a simple matter of free choice until you think about for whom it will be considered a sane choice or not, whether it will be expected, etc.

Or really, trying to cure us is like like attempting to cure people of being gay, and if people got the idea we could change - that there was a "cure" - they would be even less accepting and simply demand that we "fix" ourselves. We wouldn't have a choice, realistically. How do you think society would treat an aspie who refused a "cure"?

Asperger's Syndrome is the most prominent aspect of my personality. Without it, I would not be me.

Think about this:

Imagine the most important Neurotypical person in your life. Now imagine that there exists a magical drug that can "infect" people with AS. If your loved one was injected with the drug, AS would begin to completely envelop their personality. It would cancel out their personality. It would cancel out them. If, hypothetically, such a situation were to occur, your loved one would not be the person they were before they were injected. Could you really live with that? Knowing that someone else who looked and sounded exactly the same as your loved one was walking around while you could never see the person you knew again? I couldn't.

If I were injected with a "cure" for Autism, the most prominent aspect of my personality would be canceled out. I would be cancelled out. I would go as far as to call this murder. I admit that technically speaking, it isn't murder, as the body survives but perhaps, a new definition is needed. Social murder?

Abortion is an entirely different issue and it doesn't really have anything to do with this thread.

Can you really refute my argument with legitimate evidence?

Last edited by Curiotical on 27 Aug 2012, 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bla bla blablabla bla bla blabla bla blabla

Very mature.

Lol it's just a joke. I just think its ridiculous this "cure" idea.