Getting rebuked with "it's common sense!!"

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Oodain
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08 Oct 2012, 6:54 am

common sense rebbutals aere what people use when they feel they should be right but cant really put their fingers(or thoughts) on why it is so.

trite and irrelevant is what it is.


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Jayo
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08 Oct 2012, 8:49 am

daydreamer84 wrote:
Another example is when I was working at a day care centre and I was told to wash the bottles and dishes. As there were tons and tons of them and I needed to get back to work quickly- we were short-staffed I should have done so quickly- but i did so very meticulously- fully scrubbing each one. One of the other ladies eventually came and grabbed the cleaning things from me and started quickly (and improperly-or maybe doing the bare minimum needed) cleaning them - saying it was only common sense.


I've had more than a few occasions similar to this! What it comes down to, by my reckoning, is the AS lack of instinctive ability to "see the big picture", being very task and detail-focused - not realizing that other aspects of the environment need due attention so you should be expected to know that the task at hand should just be "quick and dirty" (not literally dirty, that's just an idiom). It could also be a lack of executive function. Of course, anxiety and worry over how we're being perceived by others only exacerbates these challenges :(

What I've found can help mitigate these challenges is using a "clearing statement", such as "OK, when you ask me to do X, do you also want me to do Y?" or "OK, I assume you'd like me to just do X in such-and-such manner because of Y circumstance?" Most of the time people are reasonably nice about it and will appreciate that you didn't assume, but a few, unfortunately, can be kind of perverse about it, retorting with "What do YOU think?" or "isn't it obvious?" Of course, some of those people may just be bullies who sense our challenges and react beyond a legitimate frustration. I had one former boss who used these lines with me and then after I gave a rationalized response, she would say yes but that unnecessary time has been wasted in "over-analyzing" things. :x



Jaden
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08 Oct 2012, 1:33 pm

Oodain wrote:
common sense rebbutals aere what people use when they feel they should be right but cant really put their fingers(or thoughts) on why it is so.

trite and irrelevant is what it is.


I'm sure a lot of people use common sense as a weapon in this manner, but it only proves their idiocy further because what they say isn't necessarily common sense at all.


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gretchyn
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08 Oct 2012, 1:36 pm

My husband often thinks that I should know how he feels or thinks about something....kind of an emotional common sense. :roll: Apparently I don't have that sort.



Jaden
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08 Oct 2012, 1:58 pm

gretchyn wrote:
My husband often thinks that I should know how he feels or thinks about something....kind of an emotional common sense. :roll: Apparently I don't have that sort.


lol almost sounds like empathy (or telepathy, depending on how you look at it), although I can't imagine not having empathy to some degree.


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daydreamer84
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08 Oct 2012, 1:59 pm

Jayo wrote:
daydreamer84 wrote:
Another example is when I was working at a day care centre and I was told to wash the bottles and dishes. As there were tons and tons of them and I needed to get back to work quickly- we were short-staffed I should have done so quickly- but i did so very meticulously- fully scrubbing each one. One of the other ladies eventually came and grabbed the cleaning things from me and started quickly (and improperly-or maybe doing the bare minimum needed) cleaning them - saying it was only common sense.


I've had more than a few occasions similar to this! What it comes down to, by my reckoning, is the AS lack of instinctive ability to "see the big picture", being very task and detail-focused - not realizing that other aspects of the environment need due attention so you should be expected to know that the task at hand should just be "quick and dirty" (not literally dirty, that's just an idiom). It could also be a lack of executive function. Of course, anxiety and worry over how we're being perceived by others only exacerbates these challenges :(

What I've found can help mitigate these challenges is using a "clearing statement", such as "OK, when you ask me to do X, do you also want me to do Y?" or "OK, I assume you'd like me to just do X in such-and-such manner because of Y circumstance?" Most of the time people are reasonably nice about it and will appreciate that you didn't assume, but a few, unfortunately, can be kind of perverse about it, retorting with "What do YOU think?" or "isn't it obvious?" Of course, some of those people may just be bullies who sense our challenges and react beyond a legitimate frustration. I had one former boss who used these lines with me and then after I gave a rationalized response, she would say yes but that unnecessary time has been wasted in "over-analyzing" things. :x


The clearing statement is a good idea except that sometimes I don't even realize there is a situational factor that might effect how the task is done. Sometimes I think there might be and am not sure so in that case the clearing statement would be useful.

Yeah that really is ignorance to call it wasting time in over-analysing.....if you didn't "over-analyse" you would not have the social intuition or TOM or whatever the H E double hockey sticks it is that other people have to understand what you needed to do at all!



Jayo
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13 Oct 2012, 1:26 pm

What we can infer from all this is that common sense is very contextual. For example, you may be working in a bureaucratic public organization with lots of processes and procedures that don't conform to common sense, and you may recognize this, but it doesn't mean that you should speak out about it BECAUSE the org culture silently prohibits it. That's the "emotional common sense" referred to earlier. Using ToM and seeing the bigger picture, one would infer that criticizing the apparent lack of common sense in your organization would piss people off b/c they would worry that their jobs would be made redundant (e.g. instead of having 5 people perform a certain process, you could do it with 2, and what have you).



Mirror21
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13 Oct 2012, 2:13 pm

Jaden wrote:
gretchyn wrote:
My husband often thinks that I should know how he feels or thinks about something....kind of an emotional common sense. :roll: Apparently I don't have that sort.


lol almost sounds like empathy (or telepathy, depending on how you look at it), although I can't imagine not having empathy to some degree.


Yeap same here. I think a lot of people want you to "read their mind".



knowbody15
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13 Oct 2012, 2:40 pm

Jayo wrote:

And this is what troubles me. Often times, I'll get into an argument with somebody to explain how I arrived at the decision that I did, i.e. it was due to reasons X, Y, and Z, ergo...basically, just to be fair and convey to the other person that my action wasn't arbitrary. Regrettably, much of the time it just exacerbates the situation and they see me as obstinate. :(


Same for me, just change "obstinate" to "idiot."

BTW, while anyone who can't understand why I might do something a different way might be perplexed, it's usually other obsessive types types who seem to have a problem with it.


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Coastt
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13 Oct 2012, 2:57 pm

Common sense is not common.



Curlywurly
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13 Oct 2012, 3:04 pm

People with autism don't pick up on, or have difficulty with non verbal communication, so often they don't interpret the message correctly, or take it too literally.

I'm reminded of this from a Red Dwarf episode:

Quote:
At one point Rimmer was attempting to "cook" a fancy meal, by supervising the Skutters to physically manipulate the utensils in a kitchen. As Rimmer explained, "you say 'Keep an eye on that lamb' and they do, they sit there for three hours and watch it burn". In response Lister chides Rimmer that he shouldn't be so hard on the Skutters, because they can only follow basic instructions and thus tend to follow them very literally.


I'm a programmer, and programming is basically breaking something down to a sequence of very basic steps. Computers aren't very smart at figuring out what you want them to do. However, give them the right instructions and they can outperform anyone.