How do you deal with liars?

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People don't lie to me that much, well, at least I think they don't. I do believe I come from a family full of honest people, and I haven't got many friends but the friends I do have are descent friends so they don't lie to me that much.

Often people in my family have told me lies just to save me from having an outburst, because they know I wouldn't handle the truth. I suppose I see their point; what the ears don't hear, the heart don't grieve, so I'll let them off there. Plus it's also to save me from getting upset, so I suppose they were doing it for my benefit aswell as their own. Wasn't such a good thing when I find out though, and they're unlucky because I may be an Aspie but I'm good at sussing out when people are lying to me, so they've got to be damn good liars to able to fool me.

Admittedly my friend did lie to me the other week. She got a boyfriend but didn't tell me, even though she knows I don't get jealous or anything like that, nor do I go and repeat it to everyone else. I kept asking, ''who's text you then?'' and she kept saying, ''ahh, nobody....'' I could tell in the way she was behaving that she was texting a new boyfriend, so I don't know why she didn't just come out and say it.

Lol your not getting no philosphical answer on this one.

Pragmatically if one is an adult, and has not realized that other people lie quite often there is something else going on aside from aspergers. Just the same if your unable to understand what harrasment is, and your in a work environment depending on the country likely ignored some very basic first day on the job training.

Virtually every job I've ever had atleast one module on harassment in the workplace.

If one is aware of a handicap, and can't do the very basics to protect themselves I simply do not know what to say.

uhm yeah it is


Joe90, maybe she just wanted to keep it to herself, have the eventual relationship just between her and the guy? Some people like it to be that way when they're fresh in a relationship. It might not have anything to do with thinking you'd be jealous.

It all depends.

Little BS like being late or forgetting something, I could care less.

Being deceitful? I completely cut them out of my life.

It's that simple. There's no other answer.

Well that's what I assumed, except she told me that night that she was going out with someone only through the internet. But she is Aspie, and she does get a bit obsessed over men, so I think she was doing what I often do, which is trying to get me to guess so that her obsession can be brought up without making it seem obvious. I've done that before when I was after a man, I tried getting someone to be suspicious, so that they can become curious, then my obsession can become important for a while as the other person wants to find out. I don't do that any more, but my friend still does.

ok, I've read most of the posts in this thread, and I'm going to simply say this:

Lying is still deception, it doesn't matter what reason it's for, sure people lie, sometimes for good intentions, but that doesn't make it right.
If something isn't some elses business, then tell them it isn't their business. Don't make up some dumb story and expect them to actually trust you when they catch you in the lie.
If you don't want to talk to someone, then say "I don't want to talk right now".
Honestly, how hard is that people?

Sometimes I think people overcomplicate things that are ridiculously simple, and they over-simplify things that are much more complicated. People are just backwards.

Last edited by Jaden on 18 Oct 2012, 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Just try to forget about it, and move on. Although, I do agree that it is something that always bothers me.

so is it wrong for me to say that i dont have time if asked to do something where in reality its because im stressed?
still a lie but the actual emaning and content are virtually aligned, to say that lying is wrong no matter what is the same as saying breathing is wrong no matter what, only because there are some you dnt find actually deserves to breath,.

i agree there are plenty of ways to lie that is wrong in every way, i also agree one shouldnt tolerate it but there is a huge difference in the two, one takes context into consideration the other is a blind black and white view(that in itself should be proof enough for anyone)

Thinking someone doesn't deserve to breath is an opinion that is subject to it's own line of truth, and being able to breath has nothing to do with whether someone likes it or not, it's a totally necessary body function to live, whereas lying is not necessary to live.

People use excuses of convenience and "concern for others' feelings" in order to tell lies and live with that on their conscience, although 98% of all people in the world don't give a crap about lying to someone, people who are lied to time and time again, eventually develop trust issues, which then effects their relationships, friendships, etc. So in the end, what's worse, hurting someone's feelings temporarily and them being just fine over time? Or waiting until they learn the truth one way or the other (which does happen people), after which they stop trusting you, and possibly everyone else?

My point is, lying is a selfish act and it does more harm than good in the end, maybe not to the liar, but to those who are lied to.

and all of that is as subjective as the breathing issue, since it pressuposes that people will be hurt when lied to, yet in many cases they expect you to lie, they know it and dont mind, what they do mind is the effort so to speak, the consideration shown when lying has a social function.

so yes everyone in an nt society is expected to lie to some extent and it isnt neccesarily wrong, what makes it wrong for many spectrumites is the lack of understanding of the social function coupled with our lacking ability in reading lies, so everyone around you migth very well know excactly what was and wasnt a lie, while you dont, so when you find out of course it can be a though experience, one i have had as well.

still doesnt mean anything inherently about lying, i might be repeating myself but truth is in the context as it is in almost anything else.

and lying is no more inherently selfish than painting, again there is context.

1. Nobody likes being lied to, period (if they do, then they're likely heartless already). So yes, they're hurt in some form or another.

3. Our lack of understanding and capability to read a lie is not what makes lying wrong. That's like saying "the light won't turn on because you don't want it to", when the reality is the bulb probably needs changed.

2 & 4. You know, based on those, it's no wonder why the world is as screwed up as it is. I feel sorry for people who really believe that.
Let's give a big round of applause to "normal" and screwed up society for their honesty in all things... what's that? Crickets? Hmmm

Now I'm glad I'm not part of "normal" society, because everything that I've heard has proven my point. The reality is, people lie because they can't stand telling the truth about something, and they don't want to hear the truth either so they make lying a good thing, and they adopt it as common conversation, and they bring it into their actions, and they justify it so that they can live with themselves when someone gets hurt because of it all. And then everyone wonders exactly why the world is full of people who wrong each other, it's because of this exact thing.

But since I know you don't believe that for a second (and it's likely that no-one will), I may as well not waste time on stating my thoughts on it any longer.

1: i know that is BS, i dont personally care if someone lies about their reasoning for why they cant do something at a specific date, if they want that privacy fine, to bhonest i think that you cant imagine anyone feeling different from you with regards to lying,

3: makes no sense, what is your actual point there, my point was that the reason you feel lying is bad is because it isnt understood, it had nothing to do with why lying was right or wrong universally speaking(incidently i dont think any action can be deemed right or wrong as an inherent part of their nature, as said context matters)

as for 2 and 4, do you not want to actually understand what is going on here?
im not claiming i know for certain but it is immediately obvious that lying has a social function and i can even understand why in many cases, telling our grandma that she should have remembered to take the potatoes out of the oven because they now taste like charcoal on one of the rare days you see her would hurt her far more than the knowledge that there is a white lie covering up a single part of a meal where the actual food is far from the primary reason for its existence.

now i agree if everyone simply told the truth about such matters we probably would see it the other way around, but that is like arguing if everyone were blue then everyone would be blue, a tautology.
the solution to dealing with lying is certainly not denying reality and the social reality(no matter how much spectrumites might regret it) has quite a lot to say.

(1) Have you read my signature? I know people don't see it the way I do, that's part of the problem, nobody understands where I'm coming from on this.

(1) & (3) Don't think for a second you can draw conclusions about me, you don't know me, you don't know what I do and don't understand, and how I think. I understand lying just fine, and it's done nothing but get in my way, and has always been used against me by other people in order to prove their illegitimate points.
Oh yes, I understand it all too well. And sadly it's what has gotten me to view this world cynically, because people have proven time and time again, that they don't care enough about truth to actually state it.
Just because you don't "personally care if someone lies" to you, doesn't mean other people feel that way.
Like other people, you're drawing conclusions based on how you see things and excluding everyone elses facts and opinions because you, like other people, think that's how it should be.

Right and wrong aren't determined by context, it's determined by what potentially harms other people and what doesn't.

I'm reading this whole exchange between Oodain and Jaden and I have to say (since I am NT) that Oodain has correctly described the social function of certain forms of lying between Nts. Some lies are looked down on very strongly and people who tell them will be despised. Some lies are seen as a gentle kindness that everybody should use and those who don't are seen as deliberately hurtful (a frequent accusation about AS people who are often perceived as deliberately not telling these lies out of spite).

A movie came out a year or two ago about this. "The Invention Of Lying".

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1058017/

This Just-So story is a comedy made for NTs about how dreadful the world was before lying was invented and how it became better once somebody figured out how to lie. As I was watching it, I thought to myself that this comedy would be seen as a horror movie by AS people, a movie about how the utopia of ubiquitous honesty was destroyed by a lying monster. This movie illustrates nearly perfectly everything that Oodain is saying.

Last edited by Janissy on 18 Oct 2012, 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

"Normal" social use you mean, for people who are "normal".
I can't speak for everyone but I've seen only the bad in lying about anything because it's always used against me by "normal" people. So I refuse to give people that option. I choose not to lie because like all lies, it would eventually bite me in the @$$, regardless of reason or "context".

im not NT, fully diagnosed aspie, reason i argue here is that for me it helped immensely to actually think about the issue instead of simply denouncing it,

and jaden, there are people that understand you, you just havent met or talked to them yet in a way that made it apparant, to think oneself unique on earth is a fallacy of statistics.

and no i dont know you, but i am honest about why i think you had your issues with lying, is that honesty suddenly a problem?
but in my eyes you really havent understood lying, you have uderstood some forms of lying used against you for certain reasons and no one here is saying that people were right in doing that, only that lying is as diverse as arguing or writing, what you use it for matters much more than the fact that you do.

nor do i say that everyone shouldnt care, i care about some lies, i would feel extremely betrayed if my friends suddenly told be that they had been lying about liking my company, that is not to say that i would be hurt if they lied about why they for a single weekend couldnt spend time with me, we all have our reasons and sometimes people arent ready to admit why.
and as hinted at before i wasnt always like that either, i had to learn it and the way i did that was to examine theissue of lying, actually examine it and understand why when and where people use it.

which is excactly why a one size fits all aproach to sopmething like lying is the only surefire way of being wrong, plenty of ways of being right

your view here can potentially harm other people as well, the fact that you do ont see lying as legitimate in any way will hurt the grandmas of the world, so again the world really doesnt work like that, far too open ended for any form of actual reality.