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One-step advice on how to fit-in NTs' society. Don't!

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LearningTime
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23 Nov 2012, 3:41 pm

katkall wrote:
NT is no better than an Aspie and Aspie is no better than NT. We just work differently. a grandfather clock and wristwatch do not have to explain to each other why they tell time.


an atomic clock that is able to record that time slows down by 90 billionths of a second over a life time at higher atltitudes is greater than your average wristwatch.



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23 Nov 2012, 3:52 pm

LearningTime wrote:
katkall wrote:
NT is no better than an Aspie and Aspie is no better than NT. We just work differently. a grandfather clock and wristwatch do not have to explain to each other why they tell time.


an atomic clock that is able to record that time slows down by 90 billionths of a second over a life time at higher atltitudes is greater than your average wristwatch.


This could be the beginning of a very interesting discussion on what defines quality. The device that is best designed for its purpose is the most ideal device for that purpose. You cannot wear an atomic clock, and a wristwatch doesn't need to keep perfect time; it just needs to be routinely set to the same time as your boss's clock, so you won't be late for work.

Wristwatch 1: Atomic clock 1


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LearningTime
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23 Nov 2012, 4:07 pm

Aharon wrote:
LearningTime wrote:
katkall wrote:
NT is no better than an Aspie and Aspie is no better than NT. We just work differently. a grandfather clock and wristwatch do not have to explain to each other why they tell time.


an atomic clock that is able to record that time slows down by 90 billionths of a second over a life time at higher atltitudes is greater than your average wristwatch.


This could be the beginning of a very interesting discussion on what defines quality. The device that is best designed for its purpose is the most ideal device for that purpose. You cannot wear an atomic clock, and a wristwatch doesn't need to keep perfect time; it just needs to be routinely set to the same time as your boss's clock, so you won't be late for work.

Wristwatch 1: Atomic clock 1


i probably shouldn't have extended her/his analogy when i thought it was stupid and non meaning in the first place. in fact i dont understand the concept of 'why clocks tell the time' maybe how they tell time but certainly not 'why' lol like personifying a clock. but i agree and actually i did have the thought wait a minute that atomic clock is currently huger than the regular clock. though i then thought in the future it could be made to a smaller size like with all (most?) technological devices.



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23 Nov 2012, 4:15 pm

katkall wrote:
NT is no better than an Aspie and Aspie is no better than NT. We just work differently. a grandfather clock and wristwatch do not have to explain to each other why they tell time.


Not sure what you mean, but it seems we are better at some things while the NTs are better at other things.

Ian Ford puts it nicely:

Quote:
"Consider how the political system is incapable of solving big problems, and how a quagmire of cultural assumptions about race, gender, power, and privilege perpetuates the cycle of wars, environmental catastrophes, and poverty. Most people can’t change those big assumptions because most people are wired to replicate the thoughts of the people around them. But some of us have to think independently; we can’t think any other way. That’s our burden, which is called a disability. I feel we were given that burden to address the bigger problems, which others cannot.



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23 Nov 2012, 4:29 pm

LearningTime wrote:
Aharon wrote:
LearningTime wrote:
katkall wrote:
NT is no better than an Aspie and Aspie is no better than NT. We just work differently. a grandfather clock and wristwatch do not have to explain to each other why they tell time.


an atomic clock that is able to record that time slows down by 90 billionths of a second over a life time at higher atltitudes is greater than your average wristwatch.


This could be the beginning of a very interesting discussion on what defines quality. The device that is best designed for its purpose is the most ideal device for that purpose. You cannot wear an atomic clock, and a wristwatch doesn't need to keep perfect time; it just needs to be routinely set to the same time as your boss's clock, so you won't be late for work.

Wristwatch 1: Atomic clock 1


i probably shouldn't have extended her/his analogy when i thought it was stupid and non meaning in the first place. in fact i dont understand the concept of 'why clocks tell the time' maybe how they tell time but certainly not 'why' lol like personifying a clock. but i agree and actually i did have the thought wait a minute that atomic clock is currently huger than the regular clock. though i then thought in the future it could be made to a smaller size like with all (most?) technological devices.


I couldn't stop thinking about it the clock analogy until I decided it wasn't about quality, but flexibility/adaptability. A wristwatch is more popular because of its tunable inaccuracy, or rather, it's ability to be flexible. A man with an atomic clock could lose his job if his boss didn't own one also; and so while the precisional superiority of the device cannot be argued, it still cannot stand as the all around best timepiece, in a more Darwinian setting.

If we look at aspies and NT's as atomic clocks and wristwatches in terms of flexibility, it makes sense to me how a structured, inflexible way of thinking may have very specific benefits, but in a random, chaotic world, the more flexible mind will navigate the complexities of daily life with greater ease.


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23 Nov 2012, 4:30 pm

There was a poll on here recently and it turned out that 2 thirds of us are not living independently. Based on that, I can see how the OP is relevant to the big majority of aspies.

However, for the 1/3 of aspies that are breadwinning and surviving only by their own means out there in society, dealing with the work, health, public services systems alone, the "there's no need to fit in" slogan is just a joke.


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LearningTime
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23 Nov 2012, 4:39 pm

Moondust wrote:
There was a poll on here recently and it turned out that 2 thirds of us are not living independently. Based on that, I can see how the OP is relevant to the big majority of aspies.

However, for the 1/3 of aspies that are breadwinning and surviving only by their own means out there in society, dealing with the work, health, public services systems alone, the "there's no need to fit in" slogan is just a joke.


do you mean it's a joke to them because it they experience it and know it is really hard to survive only on their own means (ie living on their own)?



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23 Nov 2012, 4:39 pm

Sidmor wrote:
katkall wrote:
NT is no better than an Aspie and Aspie is no better than NT. We just work differently. a grandfather clock and wristwatch do not have to explain to each other why they tell time.


Not sure what you mean, but it seems we are better at some things while the NTs are better at other things.

Ian Ford puts it nicely:

Quote:
"Consider how the political system is incapable of solving big problems, and how a quagmire of cultural assumptions about race, gender, power, and privilege perpetuates the cycle of wars, environmental catastrophes, and poverty. Most people can’t change those big assumptions because most people are wired to replicate the thoughts of the people around them. But some of us have to think independently; we can’t think any other way. That’s our burden, which is called a disability. I feel we were given that burden to address the bigger problems, which others cannot.


When societies are tiny groups of people trying to survive for just another day, there's little time for deep thinking, tinkering, and experimenting. But when society becomes large and stable
enough to support such endeavors, then those people become truly useful in helping propel humanity forward.

Now that modern civilization has so much, I wonder if appreciation for those kinds of people; the stammering professors and nerdy technicians, is
waning. Or perhaps our true time is just around the corner. Look at The Big Bang Theory. Maybe it's chic to be geek.


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Prefas
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23 Nov 2012, 4:47 pm

Moondust wrote:
There was a poll on here recently and it turned out that 2 thirds of us are not living independently. Based on that, I can see how the OP is relevant to the big majority of aspies.

However, for the 1/3 of aspies that are breadwinning and surviving only by their own means out there in society, dealing with the work, health, public services systems alone, the "there's no need to fit in" slogan is just a joke.


I don't think if you fit in, have a lot of friends, playing the social game will help you with your health, public services and systems. I was working too and I will but the only thing I had to do was work. I don't know about you my friend.. I didn't tell you not to work but not to be depressed about not having all that social recognition that you are seeing around you because it is based on lies.



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23 Nov 2012, 4:49 pm

Moondust wrote:
There was a poll on here recently and it turned out that 2 thirds of us are not living independently. Based on that, I can see how the OP is relevant to the big majority of aspies.

However, for the 1/3 of aspies that are breadwinning and surviving only by their own means out there in society, dealing with the work, health, public services systems alone, the "there's no need to fit in" slogan is just a joke.


That's true to me. I have a common job and I can tell you it's important to look calm and comfortable with whatever they throw at you; anything less is seen as unnattractive weakness or dysfunctional mental impairment. I cannot go to work and rock in my chair, spinning pens on a table and expect to be taken seriously.

Some live with their mom and dads. Some are gifted and lucky enough to have great jobs in spite of their quirks. Some don't live with relatives or have phD's, and that's when fitting in is a job requirement. It stinks. It's not fair. But that's the world as it is.


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We are not so different from potted plants in that, if given everything we need to be properly nourished, the outcome can be incredibly contrary to when we are not. A flower won't grow in flour, and neither can we.


LearningTime
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23 Nov 2012, 5:02 pm

Aharon wrote:
Moondust wrote:
Some live with their mom and dads. Some are gifted and lucky enough to have great jobs in spite of their quirks. Some don't live with relatives or have phD's, and that's when fitting in is a job requirement. It stinks. It's not fair. But that's the world as it is.


i dont' get the lead up to 'and that's when fitting in is a job requirement' sorry... as in if you have a job fitting in is always a requirement unless you have a phd relevant?



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23 Nov 2012, 5:08 pm

LearningTime wrote:
Aharon wrote:
Moondust wrote:
Some live with their mom and dads. Some are gifted and lucky enough to have great jobs in spite of their quirks. Some don't live with relatives or have phD's, and that's when fitting in is a job requirement. It stinks. It's not fair. But that's the world as it is.


i dont' get the lead up to 'and that's when fitting in is a job requirement' sorry... as in if you have a job fitting in is always a requirement unless you have a phd relevant?


Stay at home aspies don't have to fit in to keep a roof over their heads, nor do many aspies with advanced educations with jobs to match. For those of us who have to carve out an existance in the world of the majority mentality, fitting in is a job requirement.


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23 Nov 2012, 5:46 pm

Some confuse between fitting in society to survive and leisure social relations.


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23 Nov 2012, 5:53 pm

Prefas, without going through your whole thing - I agree and have went with the same thing. You've got to do your own thing. But, in communicating with NTs, it is quite helpful to explain to them, in plain terms, that you're a little bit "out there" (but harmless). That will give you the space to be naturally yourself and they won't be so shocked. They'll know "oh, that's Prefas. He's a bit out there, but a decent guy" and not even attempt to pull you into normal things. That's what worked the best for me!



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23 Nov 2012, 5:58 pm

Good point. It helps me a lot when I have NT ambassadors to help make a good impression to new people I meet. It's awful when I have to meet someone on own.


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Prefas
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23 Nov 2012, 6:47 pm

Moondust wrote:
Some confuse between fitting in society to survive and leisure social relations.


I don't mean disrespect but despite your age you seem not to understand that you don't need to fit in a society to survive but to be accepted to a society that provides to you safety, jobs and health care. That's a survival condition, not fitting in. For example gipsies are not accepted to France. They have a real problem of surviving, they can't go to hospitals, the community doesn't provide them food, legal jobs. From the other hand there are a lot of people who fit in the society very well but they are facing a lot of difficulties in surviving, in fact most of the people are. So fit in hasn't anything to do with survival. Fit in is about easily relating and matching with others and helps you soften your pain, just like you do with your cats :D.