Please explain becoming non-verbal
whirlingmind
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Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,130
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
14 Jan 2013, 11:20 am
Sometimes i squeak too when i verbally stim (my mom calls it beeping, yet its high pitched, my gf said it can be ear piercing) yet i usually only squeak when i am excited or happy. There have been times where i do a verbal tonal range/hum/noises that if i am trying to get my gf's attention however I rarely do that.
What is interesting is that even while your daughter isn't speaking, she is still communicating with squeaks and intonations. It's probably different intonations for different things she might want.
During the periods when your daughter doesn't speak, is she having sensory overload or stress that may cause her to want to shutdown?
In certain specific situation where i have an extreme load of stress (i.e. fought with my gf, saw something traumatizing) i will go mute and stay there inside my head. There are no words to say or make sentences out of. I am just there as things can be too overwhelming. I am there existing and just need the quiet in my head. At times of very bad stress, it's almost as if my mind feels broken and i can't even put together simple sentences.
For me, it feels like a shutdown is a defense mechanism for me and my mind. The stress makes me unable to talk or even be able to try and think to talk to make words. My gf says i just get overwhelmed... It's hard for me to explain this.
Has anyone ever just really focused on something, and say you almost had found the answer to a equation, or a mystery in life, or even a problem only you cared to solve? and you were sooo close to finding the answer with all this info inside your brain, then your brain just seems to short out...?
Maybe a shutdown is a way the mind/brain has of protecting itself
She's just about to turn eight. I think sometimes it's stress related when she does it. She also often does it when she wants me to guess something - which makes it really hard to guess because the noises give no clue as to what it is I'm supposed to guess. She then starts doing an annoyed sound when I can't guess. I think she still can't understand that I don't know what is in her mind, which I understand because I've always had a problem with forgetting that other people don't know what I'm thinking (probably to do with ToM). And I've done that thing where you are intensely thinking about stuff, and then start speaking aloud about it and the people you are with are clueless as to what you're going on about because it's so out of context as the prelude was in your mind!
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*Truth fears no trial*
DX AS & both daughters on the autistic spectrum
14 Jan 2013, 12:27 pm
I am some one that is 100% physically unable to speak at all. But not 100% due to having Autism.
I had I speech delay as a kid. I started talking at some time. But in Feb 2012 at the age 38 I lost my voice 100% due to seizures (lots and lots of them). To this day I can not talk at all.
They say I was borderline low functioning and moderate to severe due to having autism before I lost my voice in Feb 2012.
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I am diagnosed with level 3 Autism
I am borderline low functioning & have an IQ of 68.
I am non-verbal.
14 Jan 2013, 12:48 pm
Whilst I certainly can, and sometimes do, communicate really well (i.e. I present, teach, etc.), when my other channels (e.g. sensory, stress, etc. = n ) become saturated &/or distracted, then it detracts from X:
X - n
Then my capacity to speak to you is compromised. Further, if I sense that I am not being listened to, which sometimes happens, or I am ill at ease, then = p , then the above formula is further diminished, I reciprocally lose the need to extend myself verbally:
(X - n) / p
In essence, that's why I can be nonverbal. But writing is a different function. Oftentimes I can and will write it, but not speak it if those extraneous factors are at play.
whirlingmind, to answer your query better, yes, us Aspies can and do communicate but there is always the social communication factor, which is very plastic to those extraneous forces. This function is in stark contrast to any given neurotypical as their social communication ( = verbal speech) pretty much remains constant regardless of outside factors. In fact, for most neurotypicals, when/if they are feeling upset / blue / hurt / stressed, etc. they feel a need to express it. Case in point, women needing to verbally 'talking it out' with their girlfriends. For us, it can be the polar opposite - to turn inward.
Importantly, if/when I am thinking and formulating, coming with new ideas, a very inherently positive and creative process, then I similarly oftentimes do not speak. I need to turn inward in order to formulate. Much like how you might turn off the radio when you're in deep thought. For me, verbal speech can be just noise that is merely a distraction. At times, human speech is only noise without meaning. I literally hear blah blah blah.
I am aware that for those who are 'classic' low-functioning autistics, verbal speech deficits can be very real and their paucity of speech may be more profound where other factors are at play. AS is another manifestation of autism.
This explains very well what happens when I become unable to speak. Usually I am difficult to shut-up but, just as LabPet put it, when n>X I shut down and, although I might *want* to speak at that moment, I become pretty-much unable to do so - if I try then the result is just near-meaningless babbling. It causes an immense feeling of frustration and anxiety. There is a good chance that when I become non-verbal that meltdown is not far off.
15 Jan 2013, 9:04 am
Mm... for me personally, there are two stages to this:
When my head is very busy (processing and/or when a lot is happening in my life: stress) I lose the ability to find suitable words for what I want to convey. I suppose this has something to do with being a visual/spatial thinker, and that coming up with words is a translation effort for me.
I then resort to using parts of conversation I've already had in the form of online chat, it's a bit like reading back what I (or others, but mostly me myself) have typed on this subject before. Maybe this is a form of echolalia?
Since becoming aware of this I have trained myself to in these situations, say that I can't come up with words atm, that whomever is trying to talk to me should ask me again in an hour/tomorrow/some other useful time frame.
However I have also experienced, usually when I was already doing the above, when the other person would completely misunderstand me and/or when I could not postpone the conversation by 'just a few hours' (e.g. progress review at work or appointments with psychologists), that I get so anxious that I cannot physically get words out anymore, even if I knew which ones I could use. Before that happens I've already started talking more quietly, with people complaining that they can't hear me while I feel like I am screaming at the top of my lungs. I suppose this would qualify as selective mutism?
I think it might be possible to type those words at such moments but I have never tried. The upside of typing is that you can just throw out a few words and then come up with sentences that explain how they relate to one another. A bit like captions for the chapters you want to tell.
That's very difficult to do within a conversation. These words then become a sort of visual anchor. Spoken words just get swept away in the whirlwind of 'stuff to process'.
15 Jan 2013, 10:38 am
Does she do the intonations as a stim? So she has verbal intonations and some are as if in place of words. She has one if she is annoyed, she has another sound if she wants you to guess.
You might have to really study her sounds as it sound like almost an extra language for your daughter sometimes
You mention "She has complete control over the choice to start to speak again or not though."
I would think if a shutdown, she wouldn't be making any squeaks or intonations at all.
Could it be possible she was trying to play a game with you by having you guess at the intonation? If you can't guess, maybe she gets
frustrated about not being able to communicate what she wants to you?
Does she like to draw pictures or art? You could try to have her draw what she wants you to guess? I'm just trying ideas here....
