When did honesty go from being a virture, to a crime.

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We live in the era of diplomacy, which makes honesty a loser's approach. Honesty is still considered a virtue, but a virtue of someone who'll never get anywhere. In this 'ME' era, saying whatever works for you with a person is the clever thing to do. We live in an era of "having power over" rather than "cooperating with" as used to be in the past. Power over other humans (aka money) is gained by playing your cards cleverly, not by expressing the truth.

Back when people lived in and depended on communities, which means their character in the long term was observed, easy to follow, known to all, and was determining of their fate, honesty was valued as an asset because it would get you far. Nowadays it's seen as driving a scooter when you can drive a rolls royce. The idea is - why tell the truth if manipulation will get you where you want to be?

This, like all fashions, will pass too, and a reaction will come where people will see what a monstrous world they've built with the lies and the pendulum will swing, hard, to the other extreme.

As to truth being hurtful, well the more powerful you are the less criticized you are for telling it like it is. In the Emperor's Clothes, if the king himself had said that he didn't see the clothes, it wouldn't have been considered inappropriate.

^^^
Yeah, it's one of those virtues that does you more harm than good in our society.

I was wondering the same thing....why is my honesty and good intentions bad or largely lacking when others deceit and lies are a 'well you shud hav known better?' I have to say honestly lost its virtuous position when society's focus moved from an emphasis on certain religious values: accepting people as they are, helping whenever needed, and doing what's right for the very sake of doing what's right. The current focus is what's in it for me? What can I get out of this person? What can I get away with? Its really and truly awful.

And yet we aspies would've fared a lot less well in the past, where community was so tightly knit that it had a huge memory, and therefore any autistic social faux pas was stamped on your forehead forever. Nowadays we can always start anew, not to mention we can learn to play their game where survival is at stake and LIE. Through our teeth.

A few years ago, almost homeless and desperate for a job, I lied in an interview. Then I cried and told my therapist that had probably been the reason why I wasn't called back, they probably had found out, and that therefore out of shame I wouldn't call to ask if they had a reply for me. She said: "WHAT?! You go and call them straight away! And if they say you lied, it's all the better, you have the opportunity to show how highly motivated you are to work for them that you were willing to lie to get the job." I told her I would've never, in a million years, seen it from that perspective. To me, lying is morally wrong, and morals are the main thing in a person. To society, however, cleverness is what inspires respect - if you lied to get a job, you'll be a good liar to the customers to benefit the company, you'll lie to your co-workers and therefore get along well with them without inconvenient truths, etc. By the way, I did get the job.

I find that often "honesty" can take the form of microaggressions or simply be perceived as such despite intentions. Often, when someone decides to say something critical it may turn out that this is something the person they are saying it to has heard many times, often something they tell themselves. It often does not have the result of helping them, but rather has the result of damaging their self-esteem and actually sabotaging their personal efforts.

Honesty is not a crime. In fact, if you're in trouble for libel, proving that what you claimed is true is an effective defense.

Honesty can be a social faux pas, but I've never heard of anyone getting in legal trouble because of being honest (apart from confessing to a crime, but then it's the crime, not the confession, that they're getting in trouble for).

Indeed, lying can be a crime in certain situations, such as perjury.

Hmm I got thrown into a psychiatric hospital for my blatant honestly. Dont know how many people can say that.

I am very honest and have given up trying to lie, in the past when I have tried to lie, the words stop coming until I spoke the truth.
I am often told I "say it how it is" my approach is no nonsense mostly, I can suger coat if needed to but the message I get across is the same.

I am consistant, people like that. my boss often smiles and says that he can always rely on me to say what I mean..

I am honest.. deal with it is my answer.

Stu