Why...when it comes to social chit chat...

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Well, NT people are not really obsessive with small talk. It is just considered a mild middle point easy to manage, with no polemic issues and where you can relax and enjoy social interaction. The content is not important, as long as it's not cumbersome. Indeed, the more inane, the better, since the goal is to relax and enjoy company, not to share information.

For a NT, chatting about any aspie's obsessions is nor relaxing neither enjoyable, so it takes away the main purpose of small talking.

If it feels like torture, then don't expose yourself to such situations. They won't change, they're the majority. It's you who has to make the choice to take them or leave them. And either choice has a price. You have to take responsibility for your life instead of whining about them. However, there are compromises in the middle. You can seek people that are not obsessive about inane chit-chat. Sounds like you're socializing with the opposite extreme of what you want. NTs come in varying degrees of shallowness - it's up to you to find the less shallow to relate to.

re OP's question is there a double standard : no I don't think so - a lot of people rely on chit-chat as a ritualised way of maintaining and keeping neighbourliness and acquaintances going . . .to expect someone who doesn't share an aspie like fascination with their own subjects to the exclusion of any possible shared subjects (ie common ground that you could discuss) is placing them in a difficult position.

I don't know what your specialist subjects are or interests, but I imagine that it has taken you time and effort to get to know about them. Luckily I've got to a stage in life where I have got regular access to people who share my specialist interests, and we can get into in-depth conversation about the finer details of technical skills together. We can geek out.

To expect other people or those in my family or acquaintances to feign interest or to maintain concentration during my monologues on my specialist knowledge is, I've found the safest way to alienate them and create hassle for them and me.

So, for example, if my new interest is how salt is excavated from mines and how to grow crystals at home ....

I might touch on it with someone, but I'm not going to expect them to communicate a lot about it - maybe an ah or an oh thats interesting if I show them what I've done...
- it would be great if they could do more - but if they don't I would go to on a message board of crystal growers and seek out like-minded souls there for a convo about it.. for example.

I used to force people to listen to my ideas - in academia you can get away with it if they are evidence-based or scientific or just interesting generally but the general public are not interested in a download. They switch off... because they can't engage - just the same way I used to switch off at school.

Last edited by shubunkin on 31 Mar 2013, 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You can seek people that are not obsessive about inane chit-chat. Sounds like you're socializing with the opposite extreme of what you want. NTs come in varying degrees of shallowness - it's up to you to find the less shallow to relate to.

Oh I don't socialise. I nod and smile a lot if someone stops me to chat (to be polite) and then escape as soon as I can. I am seeking people who prefer more in depth conversations but they can be hard to find, however, I don't wish to go into that here. I am still working on alleviating my frustration and developing my level of acceptance but that is not what this thread is about.

On a personal note I don't mind compromising if they want to compromise with me, but it rarely works that way. I always have to change to suit them so it ends up with my putting all the effort in whilst they do nothing and end up having everything their own way...but I don't want to get into that here either...see above.

More to the point:

I do not enjoy social interaction for the sake of social interaction. So just being around people is not motivation for me to socialise and if that is the purpose of social chit chat it is not purposeful for me.

I do like spending time with people I share a connection with, but I cannot develop a connection via social chit chat, so again it is not a purposeful activity for me.

Understood this is not the same for everyone and each to their own and all that.

It is the principle when it comes to conversational styles that bothers me though, that one is seen as ok but the other is not. It's not about whining, it is about discussing why one is so heavily criticised whilst another is just accepted as normal and desirable just because the majority do it.

The majority used to think the world was flat...it doesn't mean they are right just because the majority think it. All it means is it is believed to be x, y and z by the majority.

Off topic because this is a personal pet peeve: Why is the world obsessed with whining?

Question something...you are whining
Voice your opinion...you are whining
Disagree with the almighty majority...you are whining.

Hell I have even cracked a joke and been accused of whining...um. That is not how a sense of humour works. Whines don't tend to be found funny by the person making them. When a person is whining they are upset, not feeling amused (and no its not specific to an ASD board, it is everywhere).

What happened to freedom of speech.

If no one questions things or stands up for their opinion about such things, nothing will ever change. Not if everyone just keeps accepting it.

Do people really want to be dominated by the majority? It is akin to allowing yourself to be sold into slavery.

The majority need to learn to accept difference if society is to ever progress in a forwards direction. Otherwise we will be stuck with the status quo for all eternity.

Sounds like their Ego drives the Discussion. I hate when I go to work and all people do is complain about every little thing like their shift, the people, the machines not working properly or their job being hard. Don't like it then leave. They then complain that someone actually likes their job and there must be something wrong with them. Can't please everyone.

Yes I had this recently with a neighbour...the entire chat was one complaint after another about either the other neighbours or the estate or the landlord or their garden or...

I usually have no idea what is going on with the neighbours etc as I seem to be oblivious to such things.

I nod and smile and try to listen anyway, occasionally making hum hum sounds but struggle to find anything to contribute. Ergo I stay quiet.

People just think I don't talk much or that I am eccentric. I know this because on occasion I also pick up the gossip about myself from one or two of them.

I'm not sure whats worse, trying to look interested in chit chat about something I care little (and lose track of the conversation whilst I try to think of something relevant to say that makes me SOUND like I'm interested ). Or talking about something I'm really interested in with someone that has a completely diametrically opposed view to mine, and not have the tools in my conversation box to rationally and eloquently defend my point of view (and then try not throw a fit about it when I can't).

As I said - because they're the majority.

Whining is refusing to accept reality, refusing to accept responsibility for improvement of one's situation as much as possible, and instead keep pointing to the wrong of their ways. Whining bothers people because it's frustrating to have to hear all that is bad without hearing anything proactive. Whining feels to the majority of people as social chit-chat feels to you.

As you yourself said, they don't place much importance on what's important to you. Your caring so much about what's important to them is only a way to do nothing.

Oh, so beautifully put. I think this is spot on.

It's indeed spot on - about situations where people from too diverse backgrounds are forced to relate to each other as a "group". Such as at the watercooler in the office, a break during class, or an outing/event of many people together. Because many of us don't get access to social situations with a higher degree of exclusivity (stuff in common) than that, we think that's all they do always. NTs don't enjoy this kind of situation in particular either. They tolerate it because it's the introduction to later on more meaningful relating with one or a few of those present.

So I am not supposed to care about what is important to other people?

And if we all just keep accepting things the way they are change will never happen.

They don't have to change their ways but they could learn to be more accepting of difference.

I don't think you should have to FORCE yourself to "care." If small talk doesn't interest you, it doesn't interest you.

To add to what the other posters have already said: sometimes people just like to hear themselves talk, even if the content of what they are saying is of little or no importance.

And sometimes it is not possible to change or improve your situation. You have no choice but to accept it.

When all you have tried has failed and there no new avenues to pursue all you can do is give up and focus your energies elsewhere instead.

I have no recourse but to accept the life of a hermit because after 37 years of exhausting myself and trying everything to fit in society still continues to reject me.

I have changed everything from my accent to my dress style to conversational style to dumbing myself down and pretending not to know stuff, to being smart, to bending over backwards for people doing everything they asked to praising them to defending myself to letting them walk over me to feigning my interests to letting them talk without adding anything to being considerate to being polite to being funny...and so on.

Ive used medications, alcohol, a clean lifestyle, meditation, every alternative therapy under the sun, therapy (regular), seen drs, seen shrinks, had support, gotten rid of support, looked after everyone else, given up everything I ever wanted to care for everyone else....

All i got from society was a kick in the guts. And still no acceptance.

It treats people like s**t, people who actually genuinely care enough to give up that which they wanted to spend their life looking after others.

There is no way to change my situation socially, I can only hope that one day the outside world changes.

Despite everything I did for others, despite what I gave up for their welfare, I will live a love less friend less life. I accept this, but that still does not mean that I have to accept the society the way it is.

Change needs to happen. This society has become selfish and egocentric. It needs to change before it destroys itself and the planet along with it.