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MYTH: No one dies from Autism

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Sweetleaf
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04 Apr 2013, 1:39 pm

Nonperson wrote:
Sure, people die from autism (indirectly): the autistic people who were killed by "euthanasia" programs in the past, or ones who are refused treatment for another illness because of discrimination.

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/young- ... 00949.html
http://www.notdeadyet.org/2013/04/autis ... pital.html


To be technical autism still wasn't the cause of death, more of a factor leading up to the death.


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Fnord
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04 Apr 2013, 2:19 pm

MjrMajorMajor wrote:
The court awarded this girl's family an estimated twenty million dollars over her lifetime for care.(1.5 million + 500,000 annual maintenance.) Not dismissing the girl's medical needs, but if there wasn't solid evidence there then wtf?

Absolutely! The girl has definite medical needs - that much seems evident.

It's the alleged cause - excuse me - the alleged "condition that resulted in" those medical needs that I take issue with.

( See how upset I am? Prepositions are what I am now ending sentences with! )



Last edited by Fnord on 04 Apr 2013, 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thomas81
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04 Apr 2013, 2:40 pm

DVCal wrote:
FACT:
30% to 50% of people with Autism also have epilepsy, which is directly associated with Autism . Many of these people die because of their epilepsy. So in a way having Autism also caused their deaths.


its like saying people die from being a woman because women are more likely to get breast cancer. :scratch:

Also another 2 factors- epilepsy is congenital AFAIK. If you don't have it now, you probably never will. Secondly epilepsy caused fatalities are extremely rare.


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Dillogic
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04 Apr 2013, 4:37 pm

Cause and effect

Way more likely to have seizures with autism, which would mean one is more likely to die due to such. Not to mention Rett's kills off all males with it (barring outliers).

Of note, Lorna Wing's daughter [who had autism] died from seizures.



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04 Apr 2013, 4:37 pm

I am autistic. My sister is epileptic. I don't have seizures, she can ride a bike, drive a standard-shift vehicle, and make eye contact. They are two different disorders.

Also, I have asthma and she doesn't. Because I'm autistic and have asthma, does that mean if I die from an asthma attack, I really died from autism?

None of this logic adds up. Vaccines, co-morbidity, all other aspects of this are irrellevent. Even if they commit suicide due to depression, it was still not "dying from autism"



Mirror21
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04 Apr 2013, 6:31 pm

Kuribo wrote:
There are epileptic Neurotypicals too ... And epilepsy, while associated, is NOT Autism, ergo, people do not die from Autism.


^^

In statistical research correlating variables do not exclusively or generally mean direct causation. For example smokers usually drink as well but the act of smoking is not causation for alcoholism. Relationships between variables are not enough to claim causation.

The OP's statements are mere unscientific conjectures.



CockneyRebel
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04 Apr 2013, 8:24 pm

Callista wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
No....they would be dying from epilepsy not autism, epilepsy may be a common co-morbid to autism but it is not the same disorder.
Bingo.

Wouldn't it be nice if some of those useless tail-chasing autism research projects went to finding better treatments for epilepsy instead?


Yes. I'm sick of hearing about those autism research projects.


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04 Apr 2013, 8:32 pm

I'm trying to think of a way Autism could indirectly cause someone's death. Can anyone think of something that would be dangerous to take literally?

So far all I can think of is a situation in which a NT tells an Aspie driver to hit the road.

Knock yourself out wouldn't really work. You couldn't really kill yourself that way.

Pick your poison could be a phrase that would be dangerous to take literally.

Anyone got any other ideas? How could Autistic communication difficulties result in death?



Callista
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04 Apr 2013, 9:29 pm

Being unable to ask for help if one is being abused.

Being unable to effectively communicate with medical personnel in order to get treatment.

Being unable to pinpoint physical symptoms due to sensory integration disorder.

Making a mistake while processing data, perhaps during overload, and accidentally walking into the road, into deep water, or off a high place.

Being unable to take care of yourself properly, and ending up with diseases associated with self-neglect, such as malnutrition.

Perseveration while taking medication, causing overdose.

Not being able to recognize danger and walking into it.

Death by restraints, mismanagement, medication overdose, while hospitalized or institutionalized.

Death resulting from being mistaken for a drug addict or intending to commit a violent act, especially by poorly trained police officers who have itchy trigger fingers.

Murder.


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04 Apr 2013, 9:29 pm

People do not die from autism. People die from associated conditions.

Epilepsy is not a part of autism.


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daydreamer84
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04 Apr 2013, 9:38 pm

Well, a lot of things could indirectly contribute to death, of course autism is one. Being a female, being Jewish, maybe wearing a red shirt could also contribute indirectly to a death. Autism doesn't cause death.



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04 Apr 2013, 11:10 pm

Fnord wrote:
DVCal wrote:
FACT: 30% to 50% of people with Autism also have epilepsy, which is directly associated with Autism . Many of these people die because of their epilepsy. So in a way having Autism also caused their deaths.

Please cite your sources for this alleged "fact".

Chloe33 wrote:
Wasn't there a case of a little girl who directly died from adverse affects/regression due to a vaccine? I can't find the article (it would be older) yet i believe she lived on the mid to southern eastern seaboard of the USA

I'm getting a vision ... it was somewhere near water ... the letter 'M' feature's prominently ... flowers and the color blue are also present ... horses ... lots of horses ...

:roll:

C'mon, people! You can do better than that! I know I can:

Epilepsy occurs in 10-30% of individuals with autism. This association was mentioned in the first description of autism by Kanner. However, the association between autism and specific epileptiform electroencephalography (EEG) abnormalities is not firmly established; neither is the prevalence of epileptiform abnormalities in the broader range of pervasive developmental disorders (PDDs) (Source: Tuchman R. "Treatment of seizure disorders and EEG abnormalities in children with autism spectrum disorders"; Journal of Autism Developmental Disorders, c. 2000; Chapter 30, pp 485 to 489.)

Two links to the Centers for Disease Control...

Link: What Would Happen If We Stopped Vaccinations?

Link: Vaccine Misconception #4

And finally...

Link: Girl dies shortly after vaccine shot

That headline above is factually accurate. Of course, most people reading it will assume that the vaccination caused the death. But we have no evidence of that yet, so try not to jump to conclusions.

Gardasil, an HPV vaccination (though different than the one the girl in England received), has been given to over 7 million girls, yet there have been only 20 deaths after getting the shot … and for almost all of them there is no obvious relation between the shot and the fatality except for timing. In other words, they were tragic coincidences.

Only this, and nothing more.


This site says 20-40%, which is close enough to what I had.

http://blog.autismspeaks.org/2011/08/05 ... -can-help/

and yes it comes from Autism Speaks.



DVCal
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04 Apr 2013, 11:12 pm

thomas81 wrote:
DVCal wrote:
FACT:
30% to 50% of people with Autism also have epilepsy, which is directly associated with Autism . Many of these people die because of their epilepsy. So in a way having Autism also caused their deaths.


its like saying people die from being a woman because women are more likely to get breast cancer. :scratch:

Also another 2 factors- epilepsy is congenital AFAIK. If you don't have it now, you probably never will. Secondly epilepsy caused fatalities are extremely rare.


Autism and Epilepsy may be caused by the same genetic factor, and curing Autism could cure them as well.

Also over 50,000 people in the United States die from Epilepsy, and hundreds of thousands die from it each year around the world. It is NOT extremely rare.



Chloe33
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05 Apr 2013, 9:57 am

Callista wrote:
Chloe33 wrote:
Kuribo wrote:
There are epileptic Neurotypicals too ... And epilepsy, while associated, is NOT Autism, ergo, people do not die from Autism.


If the qoute "Neurotypicals" are epileptic they technically they aren't Neurotypicals... I don't mean to start i just think that its true.
They aren't neurotypically normal thus they aren't NTs
That's just terminology... I would use the term "non-autistic" for that.

Like so:
Autistic: People on the spectrum.
Neurodiverse: People who are not neurotypical; includes any brain oddity, from synesthesia to epilepsy to intellectual disability, and many others. All autistic people are neurodiverse.
Neurotypical: People who are in the average range of neurology, without any diagnosis or oddity about their brains.
Non-autistic: People who are not on the autism spectrum. Includes people who have synesthesia, epilepsy, intellectual disability, etc., but not autism. All neurotypical people are non-autistic.


The terminology sometimes confuses me as i'm used to neuronormals being referred to as NTs from this site. It was the first i've heard of it.
So now i end up using the "NT" to differentiate from non-spectrum.
Neurodiverse is the proper term i should use for all not neurotypicals including ASD

I learn something new everyday :D



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05 Apr 2013, 1:38 pm

Dillogic wrote:
Cause and effect

Way more likely to have seizures with autism, which would mean one is more likely to die due to such. Not to mention Rett's kills off all males with it (barring outliers).

Of note, Lorna Wing's daughter [who had autism] died from seizures.


It's extremely ironic that you placed "cause and effect" at the top of the post and then blatantly misuse it. Correlation != causation, autism does not cause epilepsy and epilepsy does not cause autism, which is quote clear considering that most autistic people are not elliptic and visa versa. A third factor may cause both, which is what creates the correlation. Also, Rett's is NOT autism, it's Rett's, a separate PDD. Now stop it, you are spreading false and/or misleading information.


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05 Apr 2013, 8:28 pm

Callista wrote:
Being unable to ask for help if one is being abused.

Being unable to effectively communicate with medical personnel in order to get treatment.

Being unable to pinpoint physical symptoms due to sensory integration disorder.

Making a mistake while processing data, perhaps during overload, and accidentally walking into the road, into deep water, or off a high place.

Being unable to take care of yourself properly, and ending up with diseases associated with self-neglect, such as malnutrition.

Perseveration while taking medication, causing overdose.

Not being able to recognize danger and walking into it.

Death by restraints, mismanagement, medication overdose, while hospitalized or institutionalized.

Death resulting from being mistaken for a drug addict or intending to commit a violent act, especially by poorly trained police officers who have itchy trigger fingers.

Murder.


I know you are replying to the post above you that asked for examples of autism causing someone to do something that would cause their death and those are good ones.

I do want to point out to the poster above you that even if autism were to cause someone to do those things you listed or others like them, autism would still not be the cause of death, it would be a contributing factor. Autism would not have killed them, their actions that were caused by their autism did.


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