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Link: "Stop Sylvia Browne"

Last edited by Fnord on 24 Apr 2013, 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Oh that kind of avitar. I thought this was about the little picture we use along with a clever user name. Which I guess I've flunked, since I use my real name and a picture of myself.

Anyways, I don't know if a child being viewed as an avitar is something a parent should encourage in a child with autism. Of course we feel like aliens from another planet, hence the name of this forum; Wrong Planet. We look like those humans, but we're not one of them and that's why they find us strange. But of course that's a coping mechanism for our inability to intermix with others and the isolationism that results from that. Mr. Spock is an archetype of that. He's an alien amongst humans. He's different and often ridiculed based on his differences by Dr. McCoy. Yet he's also superior to everyone else in many ways.

So, it's great mom is so appreciative of her kid, but it doesn't seem like a good thing for her to pander to a "you're different and more special than the others. You're here amongst us humans as an alien on a special mission" perspective.
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That's "AVATAR"!

I agree. They can acknowledge our differences without having to counteract the stigma that comes with it by proclaiming us gods. It comes from a good place though. That is probably the root of it - they see that the world view syndromes/disorders/mental illnesses as something bad, the probably view those as something bad too (through no fault of their own as they live in the same culture as everyone else), they don't view their children as bad. So what are they then?

Oh, I much prefer being an avatar over being a potential mass murderer, believe me. And the mom is wonderfully supportive of her daughter & gets her appropriate treatments w/out trying to make her normal. So that's all to the good. And I agree, they could just enjoy the difference w/out concocting such an elaborate idealization of it. In a way, it's almost like black & white thinking...either we're monstrous or we're miraculous demi-gods.

I much prefer just being my weird little human self. Sorry, no miracles here today. What a terrible disappointment...

Sometimes it is easy to see a spectrum kid as being superior to others or "special" in some deeply meaningful way. My son spoke like a 5 year old before he was 3. He has always been exceptionally kind and has a firmer sense of justice than many adults do. He has a "gentleness" about him--through and through--that sometimes makes him seem wise, even though he is incredibly naive. And sometimes I feel like my daughter is some secret ambassador for autism. She is unlike any other autie I have ever met, and I know for a fact that she has changed some professionals' views of autism because they told me so. At the age of 2, she opened peoples' eyes. Made them see autism in a different way. So, it's easy to see them as "special" or serving some higher purpose.

I would rather a parent view their kid as a special being who serves a higher purpose than a "shell" of the child that was "stolen" from them by the horrific disease of autism.

If neurodiverse people were viewed better there would be more options for parents looking to show support for their children. It's quite sad. They (as in scientists) could start by admitting that there are a few things we are better at, without pathologizing it (Good memory? Probably means something bad! Twice as many neurons? Probably means they're dumb, let's just figure out how! Likes learning things? That's.. uh.. Very bad! They're neglecting small-talk!)
Anyway good for your friends kid And being a weird little human is the best kind.

She didn't tell me till I was a teen, but talked about it to others, and still does at social/family gatherings which has been very embarassing.

I subscribe to quantum theory and other theoretical sciences in that almost anything could be possible, but I am also a skeptic. The things we have done with genetics and the like are quite amazing and were just ideals a hundred years ago, so I don't want to rule out something. Ghosts would be very hard to prove, given that there are 6+ billion people on the planet the ghosts would have to outnumber us greatly, so as contact hasn't been made in a substantial/constant form it is almost impossible to imagine them being currently detectable or interacting with us, and then there is also the religious component. Psychic powers have never been well documented, tend to be based on illusion/trickery, or centrifugal force, we barely understand the brain as it is, so I see little point in investigations into this. Cryptids are surprisingly the most likely of the previous two there, as we have had dead and now live proof of the giant squid and other animals, but as for Bigfoot and Nessie, I think not especially from a evolutionary and ecosystem support perspective. Sentient Aliens are likely somewhere in the universe, but proving that they could/do visit us, etc. would probably be the hardest of all of the above.

Indigo children are the ones said to often be DXd with ADD or ADHD. It's crystal children that are said to be DXd with autism or AS.

http://www.amagicalworld.com/index.php? ... &Itemid=29

Actually, autistic people are less likely to assign meaning to things than NTs:

People with Asperger's less likely to see purpose behind the events in their lives

Of course, it doesn't mean that it never happens, just that it is less likely.



I am not saying this to criticize you, but this makes no sense to me. I do not understand how there is a reason beyond you choosing to have children for you to have those children. I am glad it gives you a sense of peace and I do not want to tell you that you should not have that sense of purpose. I am trying to explain how I see things in contrast to what you wrote.

I think an applicable word is "unfalsifiable." It's not even wrong.

I recognize that others may not see things the way I do, and am completely OK with it. I don't feel you are criticizing me, you just hold a different life-view than I do. I actually feel that certain things in my life that I thought were very bad at the time they happened, actually happened to prepare me for parenting my daughter. Now I realize they were not bad at all. Just part of the big picture that I did not see at the time.

Again, I don't expect you, nor anyone else, to concur with the way I see things. I recognize that they do not conform to traditional logic. But I believe that things don't always have to be logical or easily explained to be true. I say that recognizing that depending upon how many people are reading this thread and who they are, I could be pounced on! LOL! But that's alright. It's my belief. I am comfortable enough in it to not be hurt if people disagree.

The only point where I'd say that I "disagree" with you is that Aspies don't assign meaning to things. Of course they do. They may not do so the way typpies do. But I think all humans search for meaning. And assign meaning. If that were not true, then no one would ever feel slighted, degraded, demeaned or dehumanized. It is through assigning meaning to the behavior of others that we experience such feelings (and other feelings, including positive ones).

Oh, definitely. I've also met one of those parents...wanted to steal her son away, give him a home where he would be accepted & actually helped rather than just hidden & his special needs ignored. Tho' she actually felt betrayed by him. "Why is he doing this to me?!"

But I also wonder if it isn't just a different kind of shell, a kind of glamour spell to blur the edges of the stressful aspects: the social reaction of others, the lack of commonality w/other parents, the developmental delays & frictions. And then ultimately explaining the world in a way that is likely to be utterly alien to the actual child & therefore a further separation. I've had much better luck explaining emotions to an Aspie thru neuroscience (amygdala, flight/fight, hippocampus, information storage, processing integration) than I ever would thru some idea of a soul too big to fit in a body. That's validating & enhancing the alienation, not explaining the workings of the body in an integrating way.

The underlined text is a link describing a study that found that people with Asperger's are less likely to assign meaning, not that they do not assign meaning. I tried to make this distinction in my post, but I guess it was missed.

I do not think that reading something as an insult and concluding that someone intended to insult you is the same thing as assuming that there must be a purpose behind everything that happens. My mother believes that God makes it snow, but I think this is completely ridiculous - the reasons for snow are well understood, and there is no need to have a mysterious unfalsifiable figure to cause it to happen because Earth's weather system produces snow just fine on its own without volition, and under particular conditions. But finding out why it snows is again not assigning meaning in the way that I thought people here were speaking about.

So, the thing about looking for reasons as to why other people do things is that such data is falsifiable. It can clearly be demonstrated to be accurate or inaccurate. Someone could insult me, and I could feel insulted, but it could turn out that said person did not realize it was an insult - or it could turn out that they meant to insult me. Both of these outcomes can be confirmed. By comparison, it is not possible to prove or disprove that autistic people are avatars or crystal children or whatever, because such beliefs rely on assigning meaning to things that, as far as we can tell, do not exist. Because of this, it is virtually impossible to prove that they don't exist because proving a negative is fairly difficult. This means such beliefs are unfalsifiable, and such beliefs are what the article I linked was referring to.

Aww I only pounce people if there is a possibility their beliefs could harm someone.
I think that is a very rational approach and the outcome is good. What you are talking about is a feeling that many have, but in spiritual terms. Who am I to disqualify a feeling?

That was my fault, not yours. I very frequently miss the fact that something is a link unless it looks like a link (IOW, if there is no http or www in front of it, I don't realize it's a link).

I think people assign meanings based on their view of life. So, if you believe in a spiritual aspect of life, I think you are more prone to assigning "purpose" kinds of meanings to things. If you don't, then you will assign other kinds of meanings. The link doesn't work, so I can't read the study to know how to explain my thoughts in relation to it. But I am always skeptical of research that says "aspies do this" or "auties do this" because I think there is a lot more diversity within the spectrum than the general public and most professionals and researchers recognize. I think a lot of research in the area of autism is subject to strong confirmation bias. But again, I could be wrong about the study you linked to. I could see where aspies who do not subscribe to a belief in spirituality would be less likely to ascribe meanings of "purpose" to life events than NTs who do hold a belief in spirituality. But I bet aspies who hold a belief in spirituality are more likely to ascribe "purpose" meanings to life events than NT's who do not hold a belief in spirituality. IOW, I do not think it is neurological type that influences this, but view of life.

I do not know if I am even making sense. I should be in bed by now! LOL!