Are Aspies more prone to being radicalised into terrorism?

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Callista
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27 Apr 2013, 1:35 pm

I think it depends on the person, just like with NTs.

On the one hand, autistic people are easier to con, and more naive, and attracted to black and white thinking. Most of the time that just means we're nerdy folks who like things like math and science, lists and graphs, or organized information. Sometimes it means we're easy prey for cult leaders.

On the other hand, we're harder to influence. We don't pick up on all those nonverbal cues, and in a cult-like environment we tend to shut down instead of falling into line--at worst, outwardly parroting what we're expected to parrot while dissociating inwardly. We break long before we bend, and that means that by the time anybody can get us to do something we don't want to do, we've been so psychologically destroyed that we're incapable of functioning. This is a strength, weirdly enough. It means that once you get back to a safe place, you may have PTSD but you'll still be yourself.

In less extreme environments, autism makes it easier to ignore social pressure. "Everybody's doing it", the party line, nationalism, cliquishness... they don't come naturally to us. So that's a protective factor.

In the end, I don't think we have an increased risk, but I don't think we're harder to sway either. It depends on the person and their particular abilities and their particular moral standards.

Re. autism and cults: I've been there, so this is not the result of research but of personal experience--I don't know if anybody has ever done any research. So just one person's memories... not very strong evidence, granted, and really needs more data. But it's the best I have.


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Nambo
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27 Apr 2013, 1:36 pm

nessa238 wrote:
Gary McKinnon did a form of hacking terrorism on American computer systems.



Nicky Reilly, 22, who suffers from Asperger's syndrome and has a mental age of ten, was recruited by extremists over the internet before launching the bungled attack last year.



What I want to know is how did he end up with an Asperger's Diagnosis with a mental age of 10?!



Gary McKinnon was presumably pursuing his special interest of a UFO cover-up, I fail to see how in any stretch of the imagination this can be construed as an "act of terrorism", who do you think he was trying to terrify when he did this?

As for Nicky Reilly, I think maybe you already know the answer to this, the fact he had a mental age of ten probably had a lot more to do with his susceptibility to being used by actual real life terrorists such as are found in the British Secret Services than to the fact he was either an Aspie, or a Muslim.

And to illustrate my above point, I thought I would mention the "Underwear Bomber" who didnt look like he had a particularly high IQ either, just another easily duped patsy who could do work for the real "terrorists" and further their aims to get us to back their hatred against Islam, and guess what I just found!, he worked for the CIA! what a surprise!, when are you people going to wake up, Heres the link:- UNDERWEAR BOMBER WORKED FOR CIA

See, even if Aspies, Muslims, or detainees of a Mental facility are found with bombs, it doesn't make them the terrorists, its the people that gave them the bombs that are!



nessa238
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27 Apr 2013, 1:47 pm

Nambo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Gary McKinnon did a form of hacking terrorism on American computer systems.



Nicky Reilly, 22, who suffers from Asperger's syndrome and has a mental age of ten, was recruited by extremists over the internet before launching the bungled attack last year.



What I want to know is how did he end up with an Asperger's Diagnosis with a mental age of 10?!



Gary McKinnon was presumably pursuing his special interest of a UFO cover-up, I fail to see how in any stretch of the imagination this can be construed as an "act of terrorism", who do you think he was trying to terrify when he did this?

As for Nicky Reilly, I think maybe you already know the answer to this, the fact he had a mental age of ten probably had a lot more to do with his susceptibility to being used by actual real life terrorists such as are found in the British Secret Services than to the fact he was either an Aspie, or a Muslim.


Gary McKinnon posted messages to the effect that he was actively trying to disrupt American security systems:-

"McKinnon did admit leaving a threat on one computer:

"US foreign policy is akin to Government-sponsored terrorism these days … It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year … I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels … "[5]

US authorities claim that McKinnon is trying to downplay his own actions. A senior military officer at the Pentagon told The Sunday Telegraph: "US policy is to fight these attacks as strongly as possible. As a result of Mr McKinnon's actions, we suffered serious damage. This was not some harmless incident. He did very serious and deliberate damage to military and Nasa computers and left silly and anti-America messages. All the evidence was that someone was staging a very serious attack on US computer systems."[6]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon

If you buy his 'I was only searching for evidence of UFOs' line, you've been duped along with everyone else

I know whose side I'm on and it's certainly not his!

If it had been a Muslim person perpetrating the same attacks on those computer systems he'd still be in Guantanamo Bay right now!

What exactly do you think terrorism is?

only done by Muslims with long beards?

it was anti-American terrorism as far as I'm concerned and he should have gone to jail for it

Nicky Reilly's special interest became Islam and he was socially isolated - it's totally connected with his Aspergers



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27 Apr 2013, 2:06 pm

I believe it boils down to an individual's character and how well it was formed. Aspergers may help a person be able to stand alone to do the right thing when others are fearful . . . or it may help an individual commit atrocities without regard to anyone or anything. Even a logical person can start out with a faulty premise that leads to a faulty conclusion in their decision making.



nessa238
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27 Apr 2013, 2:08 pm

Adamantius wrote:
I believe it boils down to an individual's character and how well it was formed. Aspergers may help a person be able to stand alone to do the right thing when others are fearful . . . or it may help an individual commit atrocities without regard to anyone or anything. Even a logical person can start out with a faulty premise that leads to a faulty conclusion in their decision making.


I agree

It's influenced by their upbringing and peer group too (if they have one)



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27 Apr 2013, 2:16 pm

ThetaIn3D wrote:
Good handling of the subject, however the topic is a very sensitive one right now, and I'm pretty concerned about it being out on the "front page" of WP in General Discussion with a title like that.

It's a legitimate question to ask, but it could be asked about anybody, and I think casual browsers of the forum are more likely to see that and think "see, even THEY (Aspies) think they might be more likely to be radicalized, I knew I had a good reason to be afraid of them."

I hate how everything is framed in relation to terrorism now, isn't there more to life in this world?


I didn't put the thread up with any thoughts about how the public might view it, but I do actually think it's healthy that others see that we do not shy away from discussing such matters openly. And also, a high number of posters have stated that they didn't believe it was likely that an Aspie is more at risk, for a variety of reasons. So any browsers will read those responses. By ignoring the issue it's like we have something to hide. If the public read it and see the logical and sensible responses they will realise that media misrepresentation is just that.

It's interesting Nessa has linked to an article where an Aspie was drawn into terrorist activity.

But I think some people are missing the point. Yes it may be that the average Aspie is more standalone and not necessarily easier to "convince", but you are forgetting that as they are coming from a religious standpoint, they already believe in their religion (except the person Nessa linked to the article for was a convert) so it's not such a large step for their terrorist peers to make them see (in whatever warped way they can) that it's an "act of God" or it's "justice for their people" or whatever other delusion they believe.


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Last edited by whirlingmind on 27 Apr 2013, 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Aspie_Chav
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27 Apr 2013, 2:17 pm

The State are the Terrorists



Prof_Pretorius
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27 Apr 2013, 2:23 pm

Oh my, yes indeed.
It was just recently that several members of The Church Of Cthullu came knocking at my door.
"Would I like to join, and call down the Ancient Ones to take back the Earth?"
"Would I?"
I immediately signed their Necronomicon in blood.
Presently I'm down in my basement assembling a transmitter that, when tuned to the correct frequency at the correct time will cause a time/space rift and brint the Ancient Ones through ! !! !

Muuwuauauauhhahahhahaha


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Sheerboredom
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27 Apr 2013, 2:38 pm

No


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Verdandi
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27 Apr 2013, 2:47 pm

I do not think that autistic people are more likely to be radicalized into terrorism.

I think that if an autistic person is recruited into terrorist acts (something that currently appears to be a rarity) that their trajectory may not resemble other people's.

This isn't a question of moral superiority or anything like that, but a question of how autistic thinking can differ from NT thinking. For example, much of what Callista posted. I had my own experience with a cult that lasted for ~six hours before my brain completely rebelled and I stayed away.



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27 Apr 2013, 4:17 pm

whirlingmind wrote:
ThetaIn3D wrote:
Good handling of the subject, however the topic is a very sensitive one right now, and I'm pretty concerned about it being out on the "front page" of WP in General Discussion with a title like that.

It's a legitimate question to ask, but it could be asked about anybody, and I think casual browsers of the forum are more likely to see that and think "see, even THEY (Aspies) think they might be more likely to be radicalized, I knew I had a good reason to be afraid of them."

I hate how everything is framed in relation to terrorism now, isn't there more to life in this world?


I didn't put the thread up with any thoughts about how the public might view it, but I do actually think it's healthy that others see that we do not shy away from discussing such matters openly. And also, a high number of posters have stated that they didn't believe it was likely that an Aspie is more at risk, for a variety of reasons. So any browsers will read those responses. By ignoring the issue it's like we have something to hide. If the public read it and see the logical and sensible responses they will realise that media misrepresentation is just that.

It's interesting Nessa has linked to an article where an Aspie was drawn into terrorist activity.

But I think some people are missing the point. Yes it may be that the average Aspie is more standalone and not necessarily easier to "convince", but you are forgetting that as they are coming from a religious standpoint, they already believe in their religion (except the person Nessa linked to the article for was a convert) so it's not such a large step for their terrorist peers to make them see (in whatever warped way they can) that it's an "act of God" or it's "justice for their people" or whatever other delusion they believe.


I trust your judgment, and let me say I think you've done no wrong; I actually really appreciate your intellectual fearlessness, openness and candor.

I'll just provide a little more background about why I felt that way,

With the title posing an open question, it's almost like there's an implicit "...because in this thread is some evidence that that they are in fact more likely" on the end of it. I have confidence in people who give a care about these things and who think them through to reach a good conclusion about this, but I don't have confidence in everybody who might visit WP to bother to do more than see the title, have a reaction and form a judgment. We already have the example of what the media did with Adam Lanza. I suppose that's no different than any other time or place though.

Being new enough to my own diagnosis that I don't know all the ramifications yet, I'd have to admit that I probably had some fear that the answer could be "yes"; all the people here who actually said "no" notwithstanding. I'm a rather tall male who is keenly aware of my own power to intimidate (though I chose not to), and there are times I can be quiet and withdrawn, and people are willing to stereotype others over anything. With the quirks introduced by AS, I think it's realistic to think that once you add fears of violent behavior, there are plenty of people willing to be afraid of someone like me and make assumptions. Although, I'm rather Scandinavian-looking, so people probably aren't thinking about terrorism exactly if they are wary of me.

I think I get what you're saying, but let me ask you, in your opinion, just how long or short is the road from "religious person" to "religious extremist person"? There are plenty of religious Aspies.


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27 Apr 2013, 4:23 pm

Not me. I may be desperate for friends and other forms of social interaction, but that does not mean I am oblivious to what I am getting myself into. I am always pretty aware of what might be going on and other people's intentions, and it's whether I choose to go along with it anyway or not.

I think this thread is a little frightening to some people here, I really doubt we are capable of being drawn into something as extreme as suicide bombings (if that's what you're getting at).

But let's just look at a more possible situation here. Say I became friendly with a crowd of people that wanted to shoplift in a conniving way, and they hadn't bluntly told me what they wanted me to be involved in, I could still pick up on things that tell me that they are up to something and that it isn't good. Finding it hard to be frank or say ''no'' may make me appear vulnerable, but really I am terrified inside and am caught up in a dilemma and want to get out of it in a way that won't make it awkward, or I may risk losing them as friends. But if I know it looks bad but want to go along with it anyway, then it is my decision, it is not me being vulnerable and oblivious to whatever's going on.

I know this because it's sort of a similar situation that is happening to me now but I won't explain here. (Don't worry, it's nothing to do with terrorism. It's to do with relationships).


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27 Apr 2013, 6:09 pm

I've never been one to be drawn into crowds where they are into things I don't support. Extremism is never the right answer so no matter how welcoming any sort of extremist group might come off it's really not my thing. I think neurotypicals and people with AS can be sucked into that sort of thing if they aren't bothered by the concept and naivety may play a role.....but not sure i buy the concept of aspie naivety since anyone with a lack of practical information can be naive regardless of neurological type.


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27 Apr 2013, 6:26 pm

I think it would have to depend on the cause/motivations of the terrorists. However most aspies tend to be contrarians even in the case of radicalism. Personally I used to have political beliefs that were contrary to what was popular at the time. However when my new beliefs were being radicalized by others who shared them, that's when I gave them up.



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27 Apr 2013, 7:53 pm

ThetaIn3D wrote:
I think I get what you're saying, but let me ask you, in your opinion, just how long or short is the road from "religious person" to "religious extremist person"? There are plenty of religious Aspies.


That's a really hard one to answer. I'm not religious per se myself. If I had to pick something I'd say I'm a spiritualist of some sort. So it's really hard for me to imagine what it would be like to be so fervent about a man-made religion that they could be compelled to do something so radical in it's name. I think it depends on the religion, how indoctrinated someone is in it's ways (i.e. have they been brought up in it from birth and how strongly did their family adhere to it's ethos) and what type of mind the individual had. Obviously there are people with obsessive minds, Aspies, OCDers, people with personality disorders and people with psychological conditions. There is also the element of environment. Has someone been abused, did they come from a bad family, did they have a lot of bad things happen in their life. I guess it depends on any of those things in a particular mix that could sway someone into such deluded actions with the help of a radical group. Of course, there are some medications that induce behaviours in people, such as making them suicidal, or panic attacks etc. as well so potentially could meds make someone act out of character.

The case Nessa linked to, was an Aspie with a very low mental age, so he was clearly used as a puppet. What about more intelligent Aspies...they could be very niaive still. (I ought to add here, I do not reference myself in any way in this thread...I am utterly non-violent, peace loving and have way too much sense to get involved in anything like that).

So to summarise, I think how long or short the road is (and whether that road existed at all), would be dependent on quite a few individual factors.


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28 Apr 2013, 5:13 am

You're never going to get an honest debate, because you've got people saying things like "I dont' think we should be talking about subjects like this as it will give people the wrong idea about people with Asperger's Syndrome" - which effectively shuts debate right down as anyone who did ever consider joining a radical group is hadly going to come out and admit it are they?

The general tenure of this board is that we are all clean-living, law abiding aspies who'd never do such a thing and that type of person holds the majority sway. They don't even want to discuss alternative ideas hypothetically.

Undoubtedly there are plenty of people with undiagnosed Aspergers who don't even know they've got it and will never get a diagnosis until they've committed a crime which entails they get sent to a psychiatrist for mental assessment - that is often the way of these things. They won't be the type to post on an Aspergers forum due to not being able to read and write, not being particularly keen on reading and writing due to not being academic, or not having access to the internet hence you have a whole swathe of the Asperger demographic not being taken into account. So in my opinion people can only ever speak for themselvs; they can't possibly speak for all people with Aspergers.