"Hallmark of a Psychopath is they have no empathy"

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You're right, they don't precisely fit. For example, ASPD criteria emphasize personality characteristics less than typical psychopathy measurement tools do, like the PCL-R. But I can still see how someone who may exhibit some mild ASD traits, perhaps enough to be suggested possible Asperger at some time, can score over the 25 to 30 threshold in the PCL-R without necessarily matching the extremely smooth-talking and cunning image that may be atypical of Aspies and stereotypical of psychopaths (which, by the way, is a stereotype that is apparently mostly untrue in reality, as high psychopathy scores have been found to inversely correlate with verbal IQ).

Also, from what I've read, "sociopathy" is simply an informal, imprecise term. It's sometimes used to refer to psychopathy, and other times a blanket term to refer to anything that generally comes close to that concept.

It should be noted there is also research using Cohen's own tools (but not conducted by Cohen) that shows that BPD may be related to higher levels of emotional empathy.

Also, he uses urban legends as personal anecdotes to make points about evil.

When I was in 4 th grade a girl on the swing next to me fell off face first,when she stood up there was a huge blood bubble coming out of her nose,the more she cried the bigger it got.Another girl ran up and helped her to the nurse' office.Another girl berated me because I was closest and did not offer to help.I wasn't deliberately not helping her,I just had no idea I should and all I could do was look at that blood bubble and wonder how it kept getting bigger.Now I would know to help,if I was hurt it would be nice for someone to help me.I got called rude and selfish as a kid,I was not trying to be,I just did not know the right response.

“Empathy has two distinct components: cognitive and affective. Cognitive empathy is the ability to imagine someone else’s thoughts and feelings . . . Affective empathy is the drive to respond with an appropriate emotion to what someone is thinking or feeling. . . Low affective empathy is a necessary factor to explain human cruelty. . . [P]eople with autism and psychopaths are mirror opposites. The psychopath has good cognitive empathy, that’s how they can deceive, but they have reduced affective empathy. People with autism have intact affective empathy but struggle with cognitive empathy for neurological reasons.”
—Simon Baron Cohen, TED Talk

Psychopaths lack emotional empathy, but have enough cognitive empathy
it's the reverse for autistics

am not going to give her nick on her but a support staff of mine who is also a user here fought through her entire life with awful misdiagnoses and discrimination to be originaly told she had pyschopathy and ASPD,several doctors refused to refer her for ASD assessment because they belived females coud not have autism.
its disgusting how any one can confuse pyschopathy,sociopathy or ASPD with ASD,let alone a pyschologist who even at normal degree level is taught what they all mean.

am clinicaly lacking all empathy and on other forums argue point across a lot that we are not automaticaly pyschopathic/sociopathic/ASPD,isnt it incredible that people feel able enough to go scouting the internet for answers to any illnesses they have symptoms of when ill, but are close minded enough to use the media to label other people they dont know with quite damaging terms?

I'll bow to your research then since I'm only going by annoyed reactions I've seen psychiatrists here in the UK have when the word psychopath is used. Maybe they were just complaining about the inappropriate usage of the word. I sometimes misunderstand peoples meanings when they speak in real life

It might be that it's different in the UK from what it is in the US. I wasn't paying attention to relative locations.

I do think "psychopath" gets misused frequently.

Explain.

Can you run through the items and tell me how each could apply to a mild AS person? The PCL-R is available here.

A psychopath is a sociopath and a sociopath is a psychopath. The proper term for someone diagnosed with Antisocial Personality disorder is Sociopath and it used to be Psychopath. Just thought I should state that in advance for those who don't know.

Weird I have autism and have no empathy at all.

Cohen was generalizing. The labels "autism" and "psychopathy" can be applied to individuals who exhibit a sufficient amount of particular traits, and although there may be a general trend, obviously not everyone fits into a box with the same neurological makeup.



Example:

Asperger syndrome / autistic spectrum disorder

Combination of symptoms that could suggest mild AS/ASD:

Social interaction
Many (lacks empathy; introverted; socially inactive; lacks an interest in socializing; limited facial expressions / body language without conscious effort)

Restricted and repetitive interests and behavior
Some (mild OCD and tics; may engage in repetitive behavior in any given interest)

Speech and language
Some (monotone; occasionally verbose; sometimes stutters)

Motor and sensory perception
Some (above-average auditory perception; dislikes very loud noises)

Psychopathy as measured by the PCL-R

Reasonable maximums to expect given the above symptoms:

Glibness/superficial charm
1 (harder per "Social interaction" symptoms, but where adequately motivated can still forge an interest in socializing, gain the trust, confidence and respect of others, and become well-liked)

Grandiose sense of self-worth
2 (no conflict)

Pathological lying
2 (no conflict)

Cunning/manipulative
2 (no conflict)

Lack of remorse or guilt
2 (no conflict)

Emotionally shallow
2 (no conflict)

Callous/lack of empathy
2 (no conflict)

Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
2 (no conflict)

Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
2 (no conflict)

Parasitic lifestyle
2 (no conflict)

Lack of realistic, long-term goals
2 (no conflict)

Impulsiveness
2 (no conflict)

Irresponsibility
2 (no conflict)

Poor behavioral controls
2 (no conflict)

Early behavioral problems
2 (no conflict)

Juvenile delinquency
2 (no conflict)

Revocation of conditional release
2 (no conflict)

Criminal versatility
2 (no conflict)

Many short-term marital relationships
0 (unlikely per "Social interaction" symptoms)

Promiscuous sexual behavior
1 (harder to naturally court per "Social interaction" symptoms, but can also have casual sex with multiple partners using casual sex sites, prostitution, etc.)

Total above is 36. If the AS/ASD symptoms are even milder the theoretical maximum could be even higher. The score range I calculated for a family member (he was once suggested possible AS, had a criminal record by puberty, etc.) is 25-31. The cutoff is 25 in the UK and 30 in the US, out of 40.

little old now but i don't get on here as often nowadays...

thanks for the replies- helped me understand the different types of empathy...

one thing that was also being linked in my mind at the time to this commercial was the shootings that some have been said to be committed by people with aspergers...

i've never watched the show...it does look decent but not my kind of show, so this was not a reflection on the show...just an observation of a commercial i saw pop up.

That suggests an Aspie could also be a psychopath, as a comorbid condition. Not that mild AS itself could make you appear like a psychopath.

Is that what you meant to say? I thought you were saying that mild AS alone could make you score like a psychopath on the PCL-R.

No, Antisocial Personality is different from Psychopathy.

ASPD criteria:



In contrast, definition of psychopathy is a score over 30 on the PCL-R, which includes twenty items:



Someone with ASPD will definitely meet PCL-R item 15, since it overlaps with an essential criteria for ASPD (must have had conduct disorder before age 15). In addition, ASPD items A2, A3, A4, A6 and A7 are equivalent to PCL-R items 13, 3, 11, 14 and 5. However, you only need three of the A items (including A1 - being a repeat offender, and A5 - disregard for safety, which do not have direct counterparts on the PCL-R) to meet ASPD criteria.

So, at lowest, a person with ASPD could score 4 on the PCL-R (conduct disorder before fifteen, non-versatile repeat offender who never violates conditions of release, disregards own safety, and one other A criterion). A score of 4 is well below the cutoff of 30.

Only about 30% of people with ASPD, when assessed on the PCL-R, actually score above 30. Most score in the teens (10-20) with a few milder cases getting scores under 10.

Some DSM 5 facts for Antisocial Personality Disorder:

Diagnostic Criteria 301.7 (F60.2)
A. A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others, occurring since age 15 years, as indicated
by three (or more) of the following:
1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors, as indicated by repeatedly performing acts
that are grounds for arrest.
2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure.
3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead.
4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults.
5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others.
6. C onsistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial
obligations.
7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from
another.
B. The individual is at least age 18 years.
C . There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.
D. The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder.

Diagnostic Features

The essential feature of antisocial personality disorder is a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of
others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood. This pattern has also been referred to as
psychopathy, sociopathy, or dyssocial personality disorder. Because deceit and manipulation are central features of antisocial
personality disorder, it may be especially helpful to integrate information acquired from systematic clinical assessment with
information collected from collateral sources.

For this diagnosis to be given, the individual must be at least age 18 years (C riterion B) and must have had a history of some
symptoms of conduct disorder before age 15 years (C riterion C ). C onduct disorder involves a repetitive and persistent
pattern of behavior in which the basic rights of others or major age-appropriate societal norms or rules are violated. The
specific behaviors characteristic of conduct disorder fall into one of four categories: aggression to people and animals,
destruction of property, deceitfulness or theft, or serious violation of rules.

The pattern of antisocial behavior continues into adulthood. Individuals with antisocial personality disorder fail to conform to
social norms with respect to lawful behavior (C riterion A1). They may repeatedly perform acts that are grounds for arrest
(whether they are arrested or not), such as destroying property, harassing others, stealing, or pursuing illegal occupations.
Persons with this disorder disregard the wishes, rights, or feelings of others. They are frequently deceitful and manipulative
in order to gain personal profit or pleasure (e.g., to obtain money, sex, or power) (C riterion A2). They may repeatedly lie,
use an alias, con others, or malinger. A pattern of impulsivity may be manifested by a failure to plan ahead (C riterion A3).
Decisions are made on the spur of the moment, without forethought and without consideration for the consequences to self or
others; this may lead to sudden changes of jobs, residences, or relationships. Individuals with antisocial personality disorder
tend to be irritable and aggressive and may repeatedly get into physical fights or commit acts of physical assault (including
spouse beating or child beating) (C riterion A4). (Aggressive acts that are required to defend oneself or someone else are not
considered to be evidence for this item.) These individuals also display a reckless disregard for the safety of themselves or
others (C riterion A5). This may be evidenced in their driving behavior (i.e., recurrent speeding, driving while intoxicated,
multiple accidents). They may engage in sexual behavior or substance use that has a high risk for harmful consequences.
They may neglect or fail to care for a child in a way that puts the child in danger.

Individuals with antisocial personality disorder also tend to be consistently and extremely irresponsible (C riterion A6).
Irresponsible work behavior may be indicated by significant periods of unemployment despite available job opportunities, or
by abandonment of several jobs without a realistic plan for getting another job. There may also be a pattern of repeated
absences from work that are not explained by illness either in themselves or in their family. Financial irresponsibility is
indicated by acts such as defaulting on debts, failing to provide child support, or failing to support other dependents on a
regular basis. Individuals with antisocial personality disorder show little remorse for the consequences of their acts (C riterion
A7). They may be indifferent to, or provide a superficial rationalization for, having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from someone
(e.g., “life’s unfair,” “losers deserve to lose”). These individuals may blame the victims for being foolish, helpless, or
deserving their fate (e.g., “he had it coming anyway”); they may minimize the harmful consequences of their actions; or they
may simply indicate complete indifference. They generally fail to compensate or make amends for their behavior. They may
believe that everyone is out to “help number one” and that one should stop at nothing to avoid being pushed around.
The antisocial behavior must not occur exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or bipolar disorder (C riterion D).

Associated Features Supporting Diagnosis

Individuals with antisocial personality disorder frequently lack empathy and tend to be callous, cynical, and contemptuous of
the feelings, rights, and sufferings of others. They may have an inflated and arrogant self-appraisal (e.g., feel that ordinary
work is beneath them or lack a realistic concern about their current problems or their future) and may be excessively
opinionated, self-assured, or cocky. They may display a glib, superficial charm and can be quite voluble and verbally facile
(e.g., using technical terms or jargon that might impress someone who is unfamiliar with the topic). Lack of empathy, inflated
self-appraisal, and superficial charm are features that have been commonly included in traditional conceptions of
psychopathy that may be particularly distinguishing of the disorder and more predictive of recidivism in prison or forensic
settings, where criminal, delinquent, or aggressive acts are likely to be nonspecific. These individuals may also be
irresponsible and exploitative in their sexual relationships. They may have a history of many sexual partners and may never
have sustained a monogamous relationship. They may be irresponsible as parents, as evidenced by malnutrition of a child,
an illness in the child resulting from a lack of minimal hygiene, a child’s dependence on neighbors or nonresident relatives for
food or shelter, a failure to arrange for a caretaker for a young child when the individual is away from home, or repeated
squandering of money required for household necessities. These individuals may receive dishonorable discharges from the
armed services, may fail to be self-supporting, may become impoverished or even homeless, or may spend many years in
penal institutions. Individuals with antisocial personality disorder are more likely than people in the general population to die
prematurely by violent means (e.g., suicide, accidents, homicides).

Individuals with antisocial personality disorder may also experience dysphoria, including complaints of tension, inability to
tolerate boredom, and depressed mood. They may have associated anxiety disorders, depressive disorders, substance use
disorders, somatic symptom disorder, gambling disorder, and other disorders of impulse control. Individuals with antisocial
personality disorder also often have personality features that meet criteria for other personality disorders, particularly
borderline, histrionic, and narcissistic personality disorders. The likelihood of developing antisocial personality disorder in
adult life is increased if the individual experienced childhood onset of conduct disorder (before age 10 years) and
accompanying attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder. C hild abuse or neglect, unstable or erratic parenting, or inconsistent
parental discipline may increase the likelihood that conduct disorder will evolve into antisocial personality disorder.