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Hard time imagining death

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Verdandi
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05 Jul 2013, 10:18 pm

the_grand_autismo wrote:
I find complete nothingness really hard to wrap my head around, too.

In fact I read a scientific paper on this a while ago that postulated that this might be why people all over the world tend to believe in the afterlife-- we've got a cognitive bias towards believing we will always exist. It's near impossible for people in general to imagine someone not-existing at all, even to the point where people who don't believe in afterlives will attribute things to dead people which are impossible (like that a dead person can still know things, etc.)

It's here if anyone is interested: http://www.qub.ac.uk/schools/Instituteo ... 244,en.pdf


Thank you - quite fascinating.

I have difficulty with the knowledge that after death one ceases to exist. However, I do not believe there is anything after death. I do not find this depressing because after I die I won't be around to be depressed by it.



seaturtleisland
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05 Jul 2013, 10:19 pm

Rooster1968 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
there are much better ways to die than via crushed skull. heaven will exist no matter how soon or how dilatory our departure from the mortal plane.

Do you mean heaven literally (as in the heaven espoused by the major religions) or figuratively? If it is the former, I would observe that you feel comfortable delivering dogma as if it were fact and would consequently wonder if you are aware that some people may find this redolent of ignorance and indoctrination. If it is the latter. perhaps you would expand?
In either case, I refer you to the words of Isaac Asimov - a man of sober and considered thought;
"Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all... I personally resent it bitterly."


It's one thing to point out that there is no evidence of heaven. It's one thing to say you don't believe in it. I don't believe in it. It's another thing to insult someone for believing in it and to accuse someone who is just expressing his beliefs of forcing them on other people.



seaturtleisland
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05 Jul 2013, 10:22 pm

auntblabby wrote:
beneficii wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
beneficii wrote:
I can't tough it out like those skeptics and atheists, LOL. :lol:

you and me both. I can't handle the thought that after a lifetime struggle, that I shall just rot with no heavenly respite. I refuse to believe in such a depressing thing.


Me, though, I've been concerned about the opposite: eternal punishment.

I don't believe in that, either. the whole purpose of reincarnation is that we learn how to evolve in spirit, in the self-contained classroom called earth, under the burden of these heavy gross physical bodies, which is akin to running a practice race wearing heavy ankle weights, then ditching the weights for the real race.


So you believe in heaven and reincarnation? That's pretty eclectic of you.



beneficii
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05 Jul 2013, 10:28 pm

I've believed that inside everybody there is a little monitor that watches and controls that person, and that consciousness is experienced from the point of view of the monitor. When the person dies, that monitor goes onto someone else and watches and controls from there, completely free from the effects and incidents of the previous person. That way, consciousness never ends. I wonder, too, how many monitors there are, and I wonder if the same monitor can be present at the same time in different people, like the monitor can go back in time. It makes me go even further and wonder if there is only one monitor in the entire universe who will eventually get to everybody by constantly going back in time and being different people.

I feel like my monitor resides in the back of my head, directing everything, like the Martians direct their tripods. The monitor watches my thoughts, which reside in the front of my head, and sees things through my eyelids.



Verdandi
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05 Jul 2013, 10:34 pm

seaturtleisland wrote:

So you believe in heaven and reincarnation? That's pretty eclectic of you.


Not really. There was a time when reincarnation was a part of Christian belief. Also, other religions have both reincarnation and "heaven" beliefs.



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05 Jul 2013, 10:39 pm

beneficii wrote:
I've believed that inside everybody there is a little monitor that watches and controls that person, and that consciousness is experienced from the point of view of the monitor. When the person dies, that monitor goes onto someone else and watches and controls from there, completely free from the effects and incidents of the previous person. That way, consciousness never ends. I wonder, too, how many monitors there are, and I wonder if the same monitor can be present at the same time in different people, like the monitor can go back in time. It makes me go even further and wonder if there is only one monitor in the entire universe who will eventually get to everybody by constantly going back in time and being different people.

I feel like my monitor resides in the back of my head, directing everything, like the Martians direct their tripods. The monitor watches my thoughts, which reside in the front of my head, and sees things through my eyelids.

I believe that "monitor" is our brains interpreting what comes in through our senses and then deciding what course of action to take.
That also would explain a shutdown.



beneficii
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05 Jul 2013, 10:44 pm

Marybird wrote:
beneficii wrote:
I've believed that inside everybody there is a little monitor that watches and controls that person, and that consciousness is experienced from the point of view of the monitor. When the person dies, that monitor goes onto someone else and watches and controls from there, completely free from the effects and incidents of the previous person. That way, consciousness never ends. I wonder, too, how many monitors there are, and I wonder if the same monitor can be present at the same time in different people, like the monitor can go back in time. It makes me go even further and wonder if there is only one monitor in the entire universe who will eventually get to everybody by constantly going back in time and being different people.

I feel like my monitor resides in the back of my head, directing everything, like the Martians direct their tripods. The monitor watches my thoughts, which reside in the front of my head, and sees things through my eyelids.

I believe that "monitor" is our brains interpreting what comes in through our senses and then deciding what course of action to take.
That also would explain a shutdown.


Nah, it's separate, because the monitor goes to someone else after death, while the brain dies.



the_grand_autismo
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05 Jul 2013, 10:47 pm

Verdandi wrote:
Thank you - quite fascinating.

I have difficulty with the knowledge that after death one ceases to exist. However, I do not believe there is anything after death. I do not find this depressing because after I die I won't be around to be depressed by it.


I am similar, but am still a little depressed about it! I realize this is somewhat irrational, because as you said, it's not like I'll be around to care that I am dead, but it is still kind of sad to me that at some point I won't exist any longer. Oh well.

I had a very hard time with it when one of my friends died-- it was very hard for me to deal with the fact that he did not exist anymore and that I really would not ever see him again. His family believes in a kind of heaven where they will be reunited eventually. That seems very comforting to me, but I can't bring myself to believe that, since I don't think it is true. Sometimes it is very sad to not believe in life after death!



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05 Jul 2013, 10:48 pm

seaturtleisland wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
beneficii wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
beneficii wrote:
I can't tough it out like those skeptics and atheists, LOL. :lol:

you and me both. I can't handle the thought that after a lifetime struggle, that I shall just rot with no heavenly respite. I refuse to believe in such a depressing thing.


Me, though, I've been concerned about the opposite: eternal punishment.

I don't believe in that, either. the whole purpose of reincarnation is that we learn how to evolve in spirit, in the self-contained classroom called earth, under the burden of these heavy gross physical bodies, which is akin to running a practice race wearing heavy ankle weights, then ditching the weights for the real race.


So you believe in heaven and reincarnation? That's pretty eclectic of you.

thank you for defending me :) I believe that heaven is where we go between lifetimes. I have had [nocturnal] dreams of previous lifetimes, where in my dreamstate, beings told me that in previous incarnations I was high and low, good and bad, but mostly bad, which is why I am the way I am in this lifetime [unsuccessful and struggling]. I searched for answers my whole life long, as to why I was struggling while other people zoomed ahead of me and left me in the dust. I tried the I Ching, studied numerology and astrology, and read dr. Raymond Moody, dr. Ian Stephenson, Robert Monroe, the Seth Material, Edgar Cayce et al, trying to find the answers. but I didn't start making headway until I listened to what my [nocturnal] dreams were telling me. of course I have no "proof" I can point to that would satisfy the scientists, other than my own experiences as I experienced them, which isn't even empirical. but it made sense to me and enabled me to continue living. I wish I were more of a brain so I could at least get the skeptics to entertain the idea that maybe i'm not totally deluded. but my astro chart said I lacked planets in air signs which basically means I lack the IQ and social wherewithal to communicate well to other people or to get them to be able to see how I see things. :duh:



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05 Jul 2013, 11:02 pm

beneficii wrote:
I've believed that inside everybody there is a little monitor that watches and controls that person, and that consciousness is experienced from the point of view of the monitor. When the person dies, that monitor goes onto someone else and watches and controls from there, completely free from the effects and incidents of the previous person. That way, consciousness never ends. I wonder, too, how many monitors there are, and I wonder if the same monitor can be present at the same time in different people, like the monitor can go back in time. It makes me go even further and wonder if there is only one monitor in the entire universe who will eventually get to everybody by constantly going back in time and being different people. I feel like my monitor resides in the back of my head, directing everything, like the Martians direct their tripods. The monitor watches my thoughts, which reside in the front of my head, and sees things through my eyelids.

very interesting :chin: some people say there is the soul [incarnate spirit in a human body during a lifetime] and oversoul [that portion of spirit which always resides in heaven or higher dimensions of reality] while the incarnate spirit fraction learns lessons on earth. some would say that this is God's way of experiencing his creation in terms of being both the creator as well as the created. I see this as akin to a computer server or mainframe [oversoul] running remote data terminals [incarnate spirits in human bodies which have limited autonomy in terms of a reduced instruction set (wherewithal) compared with the oversoul], and that these data terminals [us incarnate humans] can be augmented or replaced over time. IOW there are many many "monitors" who monitor one or more souls after another, for eons. there are some who say that time is strictly a construct of a very limited human consciousness which isn't capable of taking in eternity all in one swallow [so we're only able to see things in just a teeny weeny slice of time that we call "now"], that past/present/future are simultaneous, and that all our incarnations are happening at once. that is way beyond my ability to wrap my brain around, but people like the late Robert Monroe talked about it in books like "journeys out of the body."



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05 Jul 2013, 11:12 pm

beneficii wrote:
Marybird wrote:
beneficii wrote:
I've believed that inside everybody there is a little monitor that watches and controls that person, and that consciousness is experienced from the point of view of the monitor. When the person dies, that monitor goes onto someone else and watches and controls from there, completely free from the effects and incidents of the previous person. That way, consciousness never ends. I wonder, too, how many monitors there are, and I wonder if the same monitor can be present at the same time in different people, like the monitor can go back in time. It makes me go even further and wonder if there is only one monitor in the entire universe who will eventually get to everybody by constantly going back in time and being different people.

I feel like my monitor resides in the back of my head, directing everything, like the Martians direct their tripods. The monitor watches my thoughts, which reside in the front of my head, and sees things through my eyelids.

I believe that "monitor" is our brains interpreting what comes in through our senses and then deciding what course of action to take.
That also would explain a shutdown.


Nah, it's separate, because the monitor goes to someone else after death, while the brain dies.

Like reincarnation? I think reincarnation would be nice.



beneficii
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05 Jul 2013, 11:27 pm

Marybird wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Marybird wrote:
beneficii wrote:
I've believed that inside everybody there is a little monitor that watches and controls that person, and that consciousness is experienced from the point of view of the monitor. When the person dies, that monitor goes onto someone else and watches and controls from there, completely free from the effects and incidents of the previous person. That way, consciousness never ends. I wonder, too, how many monitors there are, and I wonder if the same monitor can be present at the same time in different people, like the monitor can go back in time. It makes me go even further and wonder if there is only one monitor in the entire universe who will eventually get to everybody by constantly going back in time and being different people.

I feel like my monitor resides in the back of my head, directing everything, like the Martians direct their tripods. The monitor watches my thoughts, which reside in the front of my head, and sees things through my eyelids.

I believe that "monitor" is our brains interpreting what comes in through our senses and then deciding what course of action to take.
That also would explain a shutdown.


Nah, it's separate, because the monitor goes to someone else after death, while the brain dies.

Like reincarnation? I think reincarnation would be nice.


Yeah, except that unlike in other accounts, no information about or characteristics of the previous person transfer to the new person. When the person dies, the monitor loses that person completely and simply goes on to the next person. If the same monitor exists at the same time in different people, the monitor at the time in one person does not know about what they are seeing in the other person and there is no special connection. Like let's have person A and person B alive at roughly the same time with the same monitor. Let's say that the monitor inhabits person A first; well, when person A dies, the monitor completely loses the information on person A and does not carry over any of person A's characteristics; instead, the monitor cleanly goes back in time to inhabit person B from birth or the time of the emergence of consciousness or whenever. Person A would have no special connection to person B for having the same monitor.

In essence, we are the monitor(s) riding this mortal coil, ready to abandon the body and mind at death. If there is but one monitor, then assuming there are no philosophical zombies (those with consciousness but no monitor(s)), then everybody is me and I am everybody, but we would have no way of knowing it. :D

Of course, this was all purely hypothetical.



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05 Jul 2013, 11:30 pm

Nambo wrote:
Just compare it to the time before you were conceived, its probably pretty much the same.


Wonders if this is why babies cry with any of this experience still fresh in their minds but unable to articulate it. Then they forget.


Perhaps later when we die, we really forget. The ultimate big black blanket of amnesia erasing you. For what it's worth, all negative things will be scrubbed out. Any memory of horrible bosses, awful jobs, and people mistreating you getting just dropping away.

I do wonder if there is something still left after that process after even the Ego evaporates. Maybe I like to explore a middle ground where something survives after death even while most things in the brain are lost or gladly discarded.



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05 Jul 2013, 11:46 pm

beneficii wrote:
I cannot imagine myself being dead, no longer seeing, hearing, and thinking things.

I think death will be exactly like it was before you were born.


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Last edited by tall-p on 06 Jul 2013, 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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05 Jul 2013, 11:53 pm

VIDEODROME wrote:
Wonders if this is why babies cry with any of this experience still fresh in their minds but unable to articulate it. Then they forget. Perhaps later when we die, we really forget. The ultimate big black blanket of amnesia erasing you. For what it's worth, all negative things will be scrubbed out. Any memory of horrible bosses, awful jobs, and people mistreating you getting just dropping away. I do wonder if there is something still left after that process after even the Ego evaporates. Maybe I like to explore a middle ground where something survives after death even while most things in the brain are lost or gladly discarded.

there are people who [during OOBEs] described something akin to a life review, where their past life up to the point of their OOBE, was replayed for them in every tiny detail, including the thoughts and feelings of other people in that person's life. so if they were reviewing a part of life where the subject had been selfish or cruel, not only was the subject reliving that time but also was s/he reliving what everybody else thought or felt at that time, IOW reliving all the hurt and sadness and anger of the victims of the subject's cruelty. but if the subject had been kind, then s/he not only relived the kind act but experienced it from the point of view of the recipients of the subject's kindness, as well. there is hardly a more chastening yet rewarding experience as this!



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06 Jul 2013, 1:00 am

You know that time before you were born where there was nothing (before your first memories)?

That.