Mad, bad or both?

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I think you were misdiagnosed based on what you stated on here. I think you are a Sociopath. If you read the "Sociopath Next Door," you would probably identify with much of it. You might want to check that out. A lot of Aspies have empathy but don't externalize it in a normal way. There are also a host of other symptoms. Sociopaths have a complete lack of connection and empathy and a total disregard for society and law.

Thanks for your support stripey, much appreciated.

ZanneMarie, thanks for the input, noticed it wasn't as hostile as the other's. I will admit, I am intrigued by the sociopathic mind, and can relate to a lot of what I have read. But you might be able to help me here, how can I explain my rigid black and white thinking, my need to organise and collect data when i was really young? My lack of wanting to socialise when I was younger?

All of these things point towards Asperger's, what do you think?
sjc88

Oh really? You wrote:

In this sentence, you claim to have committed at least one count of three different crimes each and have also committed other types of crimes besides the three mentioned.

According to Amazon.com, your source is twenty-seven years old. The Library of Congress lists a publishing date of 1999, however. Psychoanalysts believed that autism was caused by "refrigerator mothers" who didn't show their children enough affection; they understood the sensory meltdowns and self-stimulating mannerisms of many autistic people as an intentional acting out, but these theories are no longer widely accepted.

I'm sorry, but a varied and extensive criminal record, an obsession with power, malicious intent, a desire for vengeance, poor behavioral controls (your temper tantrums), a complete lack of empathy, a lack of guilt or remorse, shallow emotions, exploitative/manipulative interactions with others, a total rejection of morality, and disregard for social norms and rules are all par for the course for a psychopath.

I really don't know what behavior you have that may point to Asperger's syndrome besides possibly your in organized crime (if you mean reading books about people like Al Capone and Prohibition and then memorizing various facts about these gangsters and crime syndicates).

you dont seem to have any problem making allowances for your own black and white thinking but you condemn other aspies for reacting simularly.My thinking is....enjoying hurting people is sadistic.I dont relate to sadists because I have been hurt and didnt like it.Some people who are abused relate to the abuser and become abusers to avoid relating as "victim".I found strength is surviving my abuse without becoming an abuser.

You seem to appreciate the few people on here who are "supportive/nonjudgmental/excepting?" of your enjoying inflicting pain.
Who wouldn't want others to except them for who they are?(rather then confront them in an attempt to have them reconsider their life choices which they find destructive of self and others.)I dont think they are doing you any favors.Do you think your abusers are justified as long as they were abused before they began abusing you.It's a cycle and someone has to stop it or it becomes epidemic.

anti-authority....I can relate.I dont respect many of the people in charge......past managers who were incompetent idiots,presidents who use double speak to manipulate a land of sheeple,church clergy who sexually abuse their "sheep" and spend money on big homes,a government that doesnt represent me....all these folks make me sick.If you can steal money for them and use to for good....ala Robbinhood....more power to you.But most criminals dont think out the full consequences of their actions.They justify them as hurting no-one....gambling,selling drugs,prostitution....there is a supply and demand factor.Someone is going to make money on other peoples "vices"...why not you?I am pretty sure this justification could be also used for being an assassin.....someone is going to kill the person...why not you?I have no answers for that.I just know I cant do it and it scares me to have such an ambiguous sense of morality.maybe that makes me weak but it is the only way I know how to live.I cant hurt people "on purpose",though I have done it frequently,just being myself.

My response to you was not very empathetic(imagine that).Mean people scare me.People who do not share MY personal ethics(most folks)scare me.I am a very bad judge of character and have been abused and manipulated many times by many people and so I am naturally wary.

"sjc88 wrote:
How about the fact that I never said I murdered anyone....


Oh really? You wrote:


sjc88 wrote:
I have a history of criminal activity, a really broad one, ranging from fraud to conspiracy to murder and all sorts in between.


In this sentence, you claim to have committed at least one count of three different crimes each and have also committed other types of crimes besides the three mentioned."

No I did not, I stated two crimes. Fraud. Conspiracy to murder. Conspiracy to murder is the planning on paper, planning openly with another, or giving an order to, murder. I never murdered anyone.

As for my source from Rita Jordan, I never mentioned any quote about the refridgerator mother theory :S I was talking about the display of antisocial behaviour from aspies/auties in order to ward off people.

My behaviour and "symptoms" leading to that of a psychpath is inconclusive. I do not display promiscous behaviour, I have a long-term girlfriend and lead a normal sex life.

As for organized crime, I never said I was involved in organized crime, I merely stated I was obsessed/interested with/in it.

Listen, if you want to hold some sort of personal vendetta across the internet, fine by me, but your merely showing that you can't accept another aspie for what he is, shame on you.

(Edit): I think that violent behavior has something to do with the impulse regulation aspect of the brain(behaviors). This has something to do with how a person forms perception of the world + themselves. Let me explain: I really don't like linking aspergers to certain behaviors but I also do not beleive that: certain thought patterns that relate to a the idea of a justice seeking thing and also that is related to violence and that others would try to confirsm that as a mental disorder is valid. All of that is invalid without other factors involved...

(Reread the above): meaning > "attempt of justice seeking" (for it to be linked to anxiety thought patterns...)

I see aspergers as that may be linked to poor connection to the limbic system(unless you have ADHD). But I would not want to confirm that since aspegers isn't considered a normal personality trait. NT's make the laws for the way that their perceptual ability makes sense to them. Anyway, the limbic system has to do with regulating emotions. Emotions are linked to the brains' arousal system. If your brain were an NT brain then your brain is most likely to have low "arousal" / high endorphins. Another thing about that is that there are different aspects of brain arousal... No offense, but I can read your thought processes as for what you wrote in this forum that your thinking may be a bit detatched from your reactive brain(impulse regulation system). Therefore, as consequence, you make your own rules. This is of an emotionally cold nature. You do not know what else you would like to do with people. You see no point in trying to resolve things through communication alone. You threaten. Perhaps it has to do with that you are afraid.

Anyway, there are other ways of thinking of violence. There are forms of violence so to speak. Hacking into this site can be a form of violence.
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Edit: on the other hand, if you think that violence has some kind of purpose in solving things than you may still try to clarify. I suppose that its hard to solve things when they are beleived to not really be "defeated". But there are consequences in the law that have to do with others' behaviors: whoever causes anything significant to arise in that severity.

In some cases, it may be best to use a more logical approach to describe someone: That you are detatched from your moral instincts - that instincts are not convincing enough in rationale for to tell you how much intention you have so that you let go of violent action... this also can relate to describe things as in: that so and so is not a rational being and that so and so was programmed by irrationality (this is not justification to prove someone as "bad" or even as a "criminal"). This is a very familiar philosophical problem in the human race.
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My best advice is that you try to find someone who understands you.. then you can make sure that good intentions are successful to deal with people. So, of course, this isn't to say that you execute actions of violence. But it is, rather, about making non-violent solutions. Ask others (Nt's) as in the ones who are "responsible adults" (who really are!) and see if you can find anyone who had to put up with annoying situations such as the ones that are related to the ones that you can think of.

Last edited by earthdweller on 07 Feb 2007, 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sjc: I take it that your "conspiracy to murder" was one of those cases where you did not form a real intent but an NT school principal or other school employee pretended to think that you did. They've been doing that a lot the last few years.

They did a windup on me, although they never went as far as accusing me of wanting to or trying to kill someone. Once they had me labeled as someone who deliberately provoked bullies, it was open season.

Earthdweller, the "low arousal" that you mention is supposedly a trait of psychopaths, sociopaths, and serial killers. I've thought for a long time that such people and NTs had something in common. I've had a personal theory for a while, also, that those who feel dead themselves may favor the destruction of animals and humans. That kind of thing has its own spectrum. I've known people who were almost alive who exhibited some of that kind of behavior.

Here's an interesting tidbit:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_kill ... ych_6.html

And when "conscience" is used to manipulate the child but mostly to torture him, what then? A "conscience" can also be used to make a person see others as morally deficient and suitable only to be destroyed to make morality feel better. Murder is definitely a "natural choice" for those who are under such an influence. But if they do it right they won't be marked as sociopaths, they will be seen as brilliant leaders.

Yeah, but I'm also not too excited to think of idealiazation to promote psychopathism.. not to define anything like that in those ways.

Anyway, there is something called "antisocial personality disorder". This disorder definetly relates to problems with the emotional regulating system. But part of this system is the frontal lobes. So the frontal lobes can also give an emotional tone to a situation as well. Note: alcohol is something that I actually do know that can lead to agressive behaviors and this also is related to a low arousal pattern. + In response to "Remnant": But, in reference to the "charactoristics" in the other "spectrums", I know that it seemed like I just limited a percetion to link aspergers and "detatched" emotionally cold lables. I did, however, meant it to help sjc88 describe the charactoristics that he can see in himself.

So.. In regard to the low arousal concept: low arousal does relate to "impulsive" / "unrestrained" emotions. I think that I can see that. So I give some consideration to that it is more of an emotion to think of to lash out in violence...

In regard to the "psychopath charactoristic": I think that I can see this to be linked with murder / breaking the law etc.. considering that the "low arousal" I made references to is of dominate "synthesis" of behaviors in the frontal lobes. I speculate that these behaviors are something I think relates to an impaired frontal lobe syndrome and that it is of generated impulsive drives that have to do with the lack of significant attention to the rationale in rational behaviors. So this is something like "lack of insight"...

But, yeah, it is bad news if people link autistic charactoristics to, for example, like an alteration to the amalglia(sp?)... then attribute that to "antisocial" and emotionally liable behavior linked to violence. With psychopathy, there seems to be more of a lack of insight of onself. As this can relate to that there is more of an obsessive interest in planning and organizing to committe a crime.

&

I don't like to think of violence like things that are like hurting animals either. Animals themselves can appear to be very instinctual. I mean, thats how they are defined. They may torture other animals(likely to). They mostly do this to other animals that are lower than them. An example would be a cat and a mouse / rodent or bird. They can also release these instincts on insects such as flies and grass-hoppers. But that doesn't mean that animals don't have a concience. I wouldn't see any rationale to hurt an animal - not unless it is self-defense. Animals can be cruel even if the animal is said to be tamed enough. Who knows if animals mean it or not.. They are probably mostly all kind of like psychopaths. But animals are no source of justice seeking. Animals can be dangerous but they can be this way because they are all wild. And this isn't an opportunity to put them down at a lower level. Animal instincts are part of mother-nature - even for the fact that they seem to have a concience and even though that it may be of a low magnitude. But at least it appears to be there.

This may call for an interesting and sane experiement to see what a smart enough wild animal thinks of any of this... (I beleive that there could be a complex enough of a thought to be going on like that)

The idea that so-called antisocial behavior in people with autism or Asperger's syndrome is a coping mechanism used to keep people away comes from the same line of psychoanalytical thinking that includes the refrigerator mother theory. I have read from statements written by other autistics that what most NTs interpret as deliberate temper tantrums are meltdowns resulting from overwhelmed senses. The desire to exert dominance or power over other people or to manipulate them doesn't cross their minds.

I am not suggesting people with Asperger's syndrome are incapable of malice or antisocial behavior. Everyone makes mistakes and does things they later regret. This is no more part of autism, though, than it is a part of NTness.

In the original post to this thread, it seems like you basically went through some literature describing psychopaths and mentioned yourself as having almost every characteristic of it. I don't really know how accurate your self-report is, obviously. Maybe you don't have many short-term marital relationships or sexual promiscuity, but there are eighteen other items on the PCL–R, a good many of which you claimed to have (in addition to reporting stereotypical antisocial/rebellious attitudes).

I hold no grudge against you; in fact, I hold no emotion, either positive or negative, towards you. I am merely making an assessment based on the information presented. If you disagree, that's fine, but it's not something to take personally.

"In the original post to this thread, it seems like you basically went through some literature describing psychopaths and mentioned yourself as having almost every characteristic of it. I don't really know how accurate your self-report is, obviously." - neanthumain

In my original post, I did no such thing, I was not claiming to be a psychopath anymore than I am claiming to have been to the moon. Nor did I read through any text on psychopathic personality disorder prior to writing that post.

"I hold no grudge against you; in fact, I hold no emotion, either positive or negative, towards you. I am merely making an assessment based on the information presented. If you disagree, that's fine, but it's not something to take personally." - neanthumain

It just seems to me that you're trying to have an arguement with me rather than a discussion.