The bystander effect

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Last edited by qawer on 10 Jan 2014, 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You should always do something, even if it's just a phone-call. If the person is "just" drunk or high they can still die from exposure in bad weather or get into some other kind of trouble. Lying senseless and intoxicated in the street is dangerous.

Same thing if you suspect a scam, I'd rather notify the authorities then ignore the situation and allow a younger or more naive person to get robbed or attacked. If you fear for your safety, which is perfectly understandable and don't want to ask other passer-bys to help the least you can do is call.

I'm afraid reality and human nature aren't so easy to "sort out logically" as they often don't follow logic at all. The point is you have no way of proving Autistics wouldn't do the same and I don't think the reasons would be that important. And most people who don't intervene don't really think about social status but more along the lines "he's just drunk, he'll be fine" or "it's none of my business, I'm in a hurry, let someone else do it". I've heard it articulated in that many words plenty of times.

Sociologists are absolutely determined to find the logic and after a fashion they do. Here is a decision tree for the Bystander Effect.

http://prevos.net/humanities/psychology/helping/



I am guessing that with the bulk of the people walking past, (2) is in effect: they have not identified the event as an emergency.
And here's why:

It isn't about social ranking but rather that people use the responses of others to help them decide if an emergency is taking place. The video shows a woman who is undecided but then pitches in to help when another guy investigates. It has been my experience that people rush to help if they see the accident take place so when people walk past it sends the social norm message that nobody witnessed the accident and therefore there probably was no accident. In looking up Good Samaritan laws I discovered that in China (unlike many other countries) you can be accused of causing the accident if you intervene in any way, there is no Good Samaritan legal protection. This means that nobody helps probably unless they actually know the person.

You are right that even in the case of drunk or high, in certain weather (such as the current Polar Vortex in the U.S.), just lying there can let you freeze to death. It probably varies from city to city but in my city the police actually do a "sweep" in this sort of weather and get the homeless/drunk/high off the streets. I would call if I found they missed anybody that I saw, but I haven't seen anybody for a week now.

The possible crime cases are a bit trickier. Back in my youth when somebody faked an injury and tried to get my purse when I tried to help, I should have called but I didn't. I was afraid he would retaliate since he got a good look at my face and I would forever after have to avoid that area lest he see me again. Trying to steal somebody's purse is a crime in theory but he would be off the street for probably a day at most. I once got beaten up and the guy was only off the street for 3 months. Now if I am unsure I just alert an official. I don't if the person just seems high/drunk unless it's bad weather.

Do other people alert an official? Call 911? I am wondering if there were 911 calls on these actors. We'll never know.

Thank you for the link and the detailed answer, Janissy, it reflects my experience quite well, at least when people commented about the situation. I imagine that at least some autistic people could be even less likely to intervene due to shyness, anxiety, feeling overwhelmed or not competent enough. Or just not noticing.

And I'm really sorry to hear about what happened to you, especially in the big cities such experiences aren't exactly rare and fear can lead to behaviour that can be perceived as callous. If I was in such a position I think I'd call the emergency services without intervening directly.

Well that's neurotypical empathy for ya...See how helpful it was.
I was under the impression that the bystander edfect occurs because people assume someone else would call for help. Lol at people helping when he was in a suit they helped more. People are pathetic. Show this to an alien race and see if they would say "pathetic" or come up with a million excuses like humans do.

Why longer in Somalia?

War has made many, many Somalians homeless.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7103197.stm



That means there will be a lot of people lying on the ground because they have nowhere else to sleep. Many will walk past because they assume the person is asleep, which quite possibly they are.

Lengthy war could have its' own type of effect on the Bystander Effect. If the person is lying on the ground and clearly injured (visible blood), are they an ally or an enemy? This makes a difference. I tried to google up some references to Bystander Effect in war situations but couldn't find anything. It may be that Bystander Effect is a peacetime effect and other social forces come into play in a war situation. All the Bystander Effect studies are done in very large cities at peace.

Wow that is weird, and scary. As much as I generally try to avoid human interaction, I would absolutely stop and do something if I thought someone was truly sick, and needed help.

It's happened to me before though. One time I passed out on the floor in a crowded shopping mall, and people were literally stepping over me for 5 minutes, and not a single person stopped to ask if I was okay.

Oh, what a strange thing to say then. If we are discussing the psychology of humans (that's what we're doing, right?), I'm sure the situation in a tumultuous country like Somalia would speak volumes about humans and war, violence, injustice, etc...Not bystander effect. And besides, the people in the clip were not sleeping like a homeless person, one man was CLEARLY saying "help...help me...somebody help me." He was not snoring or speaking gibberish. I Anyway, thanks for explaining.

That is NOT why people with autism are considered to have a disorder. Unless "compassion" is actually listed in the diagnostic criteria and I've somehow missed it.

I'm not saying I think the video is fake, but I live in a pretty large city and I've many times been the recipient of help and the helper. I don't believe that I've ever stopped to help anyone alone, there always seems to be a lot of people willing to help. I've seen sick homeless people get help. I've had people stop and carry my bags for me when I had a hurt foot. Of course there are jerks out there (for instance try to get a seat on a city bus in rush hour when you are on crutches or you're elderly, you can't always).

I think I find more callousness from people whose jobs it is to help, then from bystanders. For instance, some of the police here are great, but some are so arrogant you can barely get them to listen to you, much less help you.

I don't believe I've ever seen anyone in obvious distress or obviously hurt not have a crowd around them though. I don't get these videos (but then you hear about people dying because nobody would help them too).

Hi Who_Am_I.

Lack of herd-mentality is the reason people with Aspergers Syndrome are considered to have a social disorder - yes, too much "compassion" is in fact often the social problem!

I slipped on the ice this morning walking back from dropping my child at the bus. My neighbor who won't speak to or acknowledge me sat in her car, maybe she saw me on the ground, maybe she was so busy making sure she didn't speak to me she did not.

But even if she'd seen me, I'm bad to her because years ago my child with ASD was not friendly and talkative like the other children, and that makes me nothing to her. And because I'm nothing, I understand that, to her it would be perfectly ok to leave me there and go on with her day. It terrifies me, and I don't understand it, but it is a lot like what happens in cities, people walking past a homeless person. To me her reasoning is wrong, to her, I'm sure, she is totally correct in her actions.

I'm still scared by the ugliness of today, of knowing, and I know, this woman seeing me on the pavement this morning or not does or matter, I am nothinig and she never would have helped me. And probably not my children.

I have seen the reverse, though. Because just as people can copy others and walk on by ignoring someone needing help and use each other as an excuse, sometimes one person's kindness inspires similar feelings, and more compassionate behavior, in others.

Though I'm not feeling so optimistic tonight.

I've been offered help for my non ASD child little quite a few times if something looked like it might be wrong, and sometimes by someone alone, sometimes an effort and time, even risky to the person when something might be upsetting to my child, but she wasn't in danger.

Rarely happens for my ASD.daughter, people reach out, even like her, but not strangers, not bystanders.

I'm not saying Aspies are more empathic or better. Just that when it's possible to make someone other, less than, in one's mind, it's possible to ignore their suffering and when we see ourselves, see similarity and humanity in the other person, much harder to walk away and ignore their need. I do believe the issue transcends the ASD NT divide, though, and that seeing humanity and being compassionate is possible whichever way one's brain is wired. As is being blind to the reality of others' suffering.

I have to say, in a situation like the one presented in the video, the only thing I would do to help the person is to either call 911 and/or get the nearest police or security officer. I would not feel safe trying to help a stranger by myself in a crowded city. It could be a scam. The person could be pretending to need help so they can try to take advantage of someone. Or the person could be dangerous in some other way.

And just think...if it turns out to be a scam...all those bystanders who were just walking by ignoring the person who needed help, will ignore you too if you end up needing help.

As an Aspie, and a priest, I would have, in each case, immediately (yet cautiously) tried to help, no matter what those around me were doing.