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when does a person become NT

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dianthus
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06 Mar 2014, 5:17 pm

Marcia wrote:
qawer wrote:
billiscool wrote:
Ok,ASD is spectrum,and there different levels of ASD,
but when does the ''line'' get cross.When do
you go from Mild AS to NT,there gotta to be a Limit
to how mild a person can have asperger before
their just consider NT?

between a person who has enough traits
to be at least Mild AS vs a person who
doesn't have enough traits,but almost,
but is Just NT(but barely)

or person who almost have enough traits
to be consider Mild AS,but doesn't quite make it.


Ask yourself, what is more important for you:

1. Group-Belonging, i.e. being accepted by the group.

2. Not having leaders, i.e. not putting up with bullying from more successful people (or anyone else).

The fact is, you cannot have both. The more you value number,

1. The more you are NT.

2. The more you have AS.


This emerges in the basic motivation of people:

1. NTs act so they will be accepted by the group.

2. People with AS act in order to avoid having leaders (i.e. attempt to become independent).


Whether you value group-belonging or not having leaders more is inborn. You cannot through desire truly value group-belonging more if you were born to value not having leaders, i.e. you cannot become NT if you have AS. One can attempt to do it, but one is fooling nobody but oneself.


This is just something you have made up. It has nothing to do with, well, anything really, other that your own personal theories about behaviour. It has nothing to do with autism or Asperger's.


Qawer's theories are highly reminiscent of Thom Hartman's hunter/farmer theory about ADHD, which at one time was considered to be "just something he made up" but has now been backed up with research. Some of the same genes that are associated with ADHD, are also associated with autism, so it makes perfect sense to have a similar theory to explain autistic traits.

Marcia, granted I have not read all your posts on this forum, but this is the second time in about a week I have noticed you attempting to shoot down another person's ideas, while your own ideas seem to be rather misinformed.



Marcia
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06 Mar 2014, 6:07 pm

dianthus wrote:
Marcia wrote:
qawer wrote:
billiscool wrote:
Ok,ASD is spectrum,and there different levels of ASD,
but when does the ''line'' get cross.When do
you go from Mild AS to NT,there gotta to be a Limit
to how mild a person can have asperger before
their just consider NT?

between a person who has enough traits
to be at least Mild AS vs a person who
doesn't have enough traits,but almost,
but is Just NT(but barely)

or person who almost have enough traits
to be consider Mild AS,but doesn't quite make it.


Ask yourself, what is more important for you:

1. Group-Belonging, i.e. being accepted by the group.

2. Not having leaders, i.e. not putting up with bullying from more successful people (or anyone else).

The fact is, you cannot have both. The more you value number,

1. The more you are NT.

2. The more you have AS.


This emerges in the basic motivation of people:

1. NTs act so they will be accepted by the group.

2. People with AS act in order to avoid having leaders (i.e. attempt to become independent).


Whether you value group-belonging or not having leaders more is inborn. You cannot through desire truly value group-belonging more if you were born to value not having leaders, i.e. you cannot become NT if you have AS. One can attempt to do it, but one is fooling nobody but oneself.


This is just something you have made up. It has nothing to do with, well, anything really, other that your own personal theories about behaviour. It has nothing to do with autism or Asperger's.


Qawer's theories are highly reminiscent of Thom Hartman's hunter/farmer theory about ADHD, which at one time was considered to be "just something he made up" but has now been backed up with research. Some of the same genes that are associated with ADHD, are also associated with autism, so it makes perfect sense to have a similar theory to explain autistic traits.

Marcia, granted I have not read all your posts on this forum, but this is the second time in about a week I have noticed you attempting to shoot down another person's ideas, while your own ideas seem to be rather misinformed.


Qawer's ideas about wanting to be part of a group, or not, have no relation to the diagnostic criteria for Autism. My son has a diagnosis of Asperger's and he, like many others who are autistic, would very much like to be part of a group. He is 12 years old, and it has been a source of sadness for him for some years now that he struggles to be accepted into a group. Some autistic people are less, or not at all bothered about "belonging" in that way. Not all autistic people are the same in this, or many other aspects of life. Similarly, qawer has ideas about neurotypicals which I believe are a gross overgeneralisation.

On what other matters do you feel I am misinformed?



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06 Mar 2014, 6:29 pm

I remember reading in the papers printed from the internet from 6th grade when I was 14 that lot of children with AS want friends. Then I heard when i was an adult that lot of them don't want friends and don't want groups either. I tried to belong in groups when I was little and found it difficult and now I am not interested anymore. There are only certain groups I will attend.


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jenisautistic
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06 Mar 2014, 6:57 pm

League_Girl wrote:
GiantHockeyFan wrote:
When I first started exploring if I have Aspergers, I was told by a psychiatrist to be that I don't have it because I'm not "impaired" enough. As if having no friends, acting like a teenager and being bullied constantly is "normal". :roll: This is what frustrates me: an ASD is supposedly a lifelong condition but I were to suddenly become popular, that would make me "NT". Nobody has ever given me a proper explanation as to why. Besides, didn't this idiot ever stop and think that I got my good job IN SPITE of my ASD status? Seems kinda ridiculous to meet 100% of the official (and unofficial off the books) diagnostic criteria yet be originally told no because I have a full time job. So, if I am fired I'm suddenly Autistic? :huh:

I think like a lot of things in the DSM the criteria is far too vague and subjective to really tell us anything with any certainty. I'm still the same person I was when I spent three years looking for work only I got lucky and the stars aligned!



I used under the impression that if everyone accepted me and I became popular and had lot of friends all of a sudden and got treated normal like everyone else, I will be NT. But that isn't the case and I would still be me. But then that would make me wonder where are the impairments if I am not having any troubles with people because I am accepted and everyone leaves me alone? Being an adult now, I get respect and I get left alone and I wonder where are the impairments so I feel normal and no one is mean to me. My dad did tell me my life would get better after I get out of school despite seeing all the posts online by aspies about how badly they get treated at work. Okay if all of a sudden all those aspies got respect and were accepted and treated right, they would still be them, not NT. As a kid I would think they were cured and normal now because that is how I would feel about myself and think I am normal now. heck even i thought in 5th grade these kids in 6th grade who were obviously different were normal because they had friends and respect and didn't get teased or bullied and were not singled out. But they still had impairments, they still had a disability, their peers just treated them better and they were still them, not normal now. I used to wonder back then how they got other people to treat them normal and be like everyone else and how they did it. But now I know the more visible your disabilities are, the more respect and understandings you get and that was their secret formula to being normal. :wink:


This is how I feel too. I'm wondering why so many people are desperate to be nts. Is it because they think they wont get bullied,exuded, singled out, misunderstandings, ect anymore and that everything will be all happy all the time? Because it won't being mean and Being/ becoming an nt will not automatically decreased the stereotyping and bullying that goes around. Bullies will find any part of you that's different over here and or new transfer that even if it's the slightest thing and you may not think that would affect someone but it can and it would things as simple as a mistake that can happen to anyone that make you ridiculed for the rest of your life. In fact you can be bullied because of how someone else is that you are related to that has nothing to do with you or even for something somebody thinks you are even though you're not.

Our life's goal should not be to conform and be a sheep it should be to stand out and be respected as we are and sort of meet halfway. We should tolerate and respect the nts perspective as much as they should respect ours.

I don't think Autism or other disabilities are good or bad thing just an essential thing.

Diverseity is makes true harmony a world without diverse perspectives would not last very long and this does not just include the perspective of humans but also of animals.


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Autism= Awesome, unique ,Special, talented, Intelligent, Smart and Mysterious


dianthus
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06 Mar 2014, 7:38 pm

Marcia wrote:
On what other matters do you feel I am misinformed?


I already addressed this in another thread, and I don't care to repeat myself.



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06 Mar 2014, 7:52 pm

dianthus wrote:
Marcia wrote:
On what other matters do you feel I am misinformed?


I already addressed this in another thread, and I don't care to repeat myself.


Ah, I looked back and the only other time I can see we interacted was on the question of herd behaviour, which I haven't replied to yet. My having a different opinion to you doesn't necessarily mean that I am misinformed. It may mean that I have read and interpreted the question or situation differently.



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06 Mar 2014, 7:59 pm

Marcia wrote:
Ah, I looked back and the only other time I can see we interacted was on the question of herd behaviour, which I haven't replied to yet. My having a different opinion to you doesn't necessarily mean that I am misinformed. It may mean that I have read and interpreted the question or situation differently.


I don't want to interact with you at all.



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06 Mar 2014, 8:12 pm

dianthus wrote:
Marcia wrote:
Ah, I looked back and the only other time I can see we interacted was on the question of herd behaviour, which I haven't replied to yet. My having a different opinion to you doesn't necessarily mean that I am misinformed. It may mean that I have read and interpreted the question or situation differently.


I don't want to interact with you at all.


Ok. Don't respond to my posts then.



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06 Mar 2014, 8:17 pm

Marcia wrote:
Ok. Don't respond to my posts then.


I will if you are rude to other people.



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06 Mar 2014, 8:39 pm

dianthus wrote:
Marcia wrote:
Ok. Don't respond to my posts then.


I will if you are rude to other people.


You don't think that telling me that I am misinformed is rude?



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06 Mar 2014, 8:46 pm

Marcia wrote:
You don't think that telling me that I am misinformed is rude?


No.



jenisautistic
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06 Mar 2014, 9:08 pm

Marcia wrote:
dianthus wrote:
Marcia wrote:
qawer wrote:
billiscool wrote:
Ok,ASD is spectrum,and there different levels of ASD,
but when does the ''line'' get cross.When do
you go from Mild AS to NT,there gotta to be a Limit
to how mild a person can have asperger before
their just consider NT?

between a person who has enough traits
to be at least Mild AS vs a person who
doesn't have enough traits,but almost,
but is Just NT(but barely)

or person who almost have enough traits
to be consider Mild AS,but doesn't quite make it.


Ask yourself, what is more important for you:

1. Group-Belonging, i.e. being accepted by the group.

2. Not having leaders, i.e. not putting up with bullying from more successful people (or anyone else).

The fact is, you cannot have both. The more you value number,

1. The more you are NT.

2. The more you have AS.


This emerges in the basic motivation of people:

1. NTs act so they will be accepted by the group.

2. People with AS act in order to avoid having leaders (i.e. attempt to become independent).


Whether you value group-belonging or not having leaders more is inborn. You cannot through desire truly value group-belonging more if you were born to value not having leaders, i.e. you cannot become NT if you have AS. One can attempt to do it, but one is fooling nobody but oneself.


This is just something you have made up. It has nothing to do with, well, anything really, other that your own personal theories about behaviour. It has nothing to do with autism or Asperger's.


Qawer's theories are highly reminiscent of Thom Hartman's hunter/farmer theory about ADHD, which at one time was considered to be "just something he made up" but has now been backed up with research. Some of the same genes that are associated with ADHD, are also associated with autism, so it makes perfect sense to have a similar theory to explain autistic traits.

Marcia, granted I have not read all your posts on this forum, but this is the second time in about a week I have noticed you attempting to shoot down another person's ideas, while your own ideas seem to be rather misinformed.


Qawer's ideas about wanting to be part of a group, or not, have no relation to the diagnostic criteria for Autism. My son has a diagnosis of Asperger's and he, like many others who are autistic, would very much like to be part of a group. He is 12 years old, and it has been a source of sadness for him for some years now that he struggles to be accepted into a group. Some autistic people are less, or not at all bothered about "belonging" in that way. Not all autistic people are the same in this, or many other aspects of life. Similarly, qawer has ideas about neurotypicals which I believe are a gross overgeneralisation.

On what other matters do you feel I am misinformed?


I think the idea is that people whether wanting to be a group or not would not want to conform but instead to be excepted and I have to change themselves or who they are in order to be in a group.

Nts in a group would usually be susceptible to peer pressure and would do anything even something that they don't want to do something that makes them feel uncomfortable bad about themselves, that or something maybe even something that is against the rules or illegal just to be a part of the group and Autistics will only be a part of the group if he could be himself and default to add his own uniqueness opinions and beliefs.

Or if attempted to conform in a group wouldn't be able to even if they they think they are fitting in they would not be and may be laughed/made fun of behind their backs.


I don't think it's wether or not they are in or want to be in a group it's how they would act and/or or seen by others if they were in a group if trying to act not different.


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Autism= Awesome, unique ,Special, talented, Intelligent, Smart and Mysterious


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06 Mar 2014, 10:17 pm

You either have AS, or you do not. There really is no such thing as "mild " AS. It is a developmental disorder, so your brain is different. If it is not than you are simply a normal person.



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06 Mar 2014, 11:21 pm

I have heard the idea that "everyone is a little bit autistic" as if it exists on a continuum but I think like ScottyN said, either you have it or you don't.

Eye tracking research has shown that autistic people tend to look more at the lower half of a person's face, the mouth, while NTs look more at the upper half and the eyes. This leads to a world of difference in how we interpret social situations.

If you talk about behavioral symptoms, yes some NTs seem to have some autistic traits, some might be BAP, some autistic people seem to be less clinical than others, and so on, so sure it could seem like a continuum.

But when you scan a brain to see how it functions, it seems to be very much either/or. What it comes down to is either your brain is wired for autism, or it is not.



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06 Mar 2014, 11:40 pm

ScottyN wrote:
You either have AS, or you do not. There really is no such thing as "mild " AS. It is a developmental disorder, so your brain is different. If it is not than you are simply a normal person.


Actually, ScottyN, since there are differing degrees of impairment, different areas in which someone on the spectrum varies from NT and how much they differ from NT should tell you there IS "mild" AS or ASD. That's why the term "high functioning" is used.

They've found that autism involves brain differences. If someone's brain does differ the way an autistic brain does, but not as much as someone who's profoundly affected, their autistic symptoms will be less severe. It's even been found that in some Autistics, as they get older the brain tries to rewire itself, it becomes more like an NT brain, and their symptoms lessen.

So no, it's not a matter of you having autism or not, end of story. That's what a doctor told me when I was in my 20s. They know it's just not true now.

The brain differences can be severe, or minor. The less severe, the closer to NT the person is.

Why do you think autism is called a "spectrum"? Part of that involves the simple fact that some are more affected by autism than others are. Those who aren't greatly affected can be said to be "mildly" autistic.

I'm sorry, but you've failed to grasp a few important points along the way.


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06 Mar 2014, 11:48 pm

dianthus wrote:
I have heard the idea that "everyone is a little bit autistic" as if it exists on a continuum but I think like ScottyN said, either you have it or you don't...


You're forgetting the autism spectrum. No, it's not a case of "yes or no". There are gray areas in between. This is because of what I pointed out to ScottyN. Some people's brains don't have as severe a case of autistic wiring as others do.

You could line people up and have each be, neurologically, a little less autistic in their wiring than the person who came before them. Eventually, you get to someone whose brain is wired normally, and that person is for sure NT. Thing is, well before that, there will be people with very faint autism symptoms ("traits") who just don't get diagnosed because their brain is practically NT. At what point can you say they're on one side of your divider line or the other?

There isn't one.

Autism is a spectrum.


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AQ 31
Your Aspie score: 100 of 200 / Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 101 of 200
You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits

What would these results mean? Been told here I must be a "half pint".