Is "Engineer personality type" a folk term for Asp

Page 2 of 2 [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

FireyInspiration
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Mar 2014
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 540
Location: Unknown

24 Mar 2014, 7:26 pm

Engineering is a field that relies heavily on mathematical and practical evaluation and relies very little on social skills, and therefore would be an attractive option for someone with aspergers or other form of autism.

As for their children, since the parent (the engineer) is more likely to be on the spectrum, and is more likely to know someone on the spectrum than someone in another field, they may more aware of it and be better able to see the signs of it in their child. This would mean that even if children of engineers being on the spectrum is the same as those in other occupations, the rate of an engineer's child on the spectrum being on the spectrum actually getting diagnosed may be higher than children who's parents are in other fields.

Just a theory I thought of on the spot, though.



Sylvastor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Jan 2013
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 781
Location: Germany

24 Mar 2014, 7:52 pm

That is an interesting point.
My mother actually somewhat suspected herself to be autistic during her young years seeing parallels to autism, but that was in times when the stereotype of "only - and really only - classic autism is autism" was more than common, hence she disregarded it as a stupid thought.
Only after the suspicion was rised in me she got a whole new perspective on that. So I guess, if not for the stereotypes/lack of knowledge on that topic, I surely would have been diagnosed earlier as well. Things changed nowadays, so I assume your post could definitely be true as not just the overall awareness increased, but also more diagnosis are given and those who were diagnosed or suspect it in themselves and read up on it, might as well recognize it faster in their child(ren).
It somehow reminds me of the "There are actually as many autistic women as autistic men, just the women (due to the "social structure") tend to hide it better"-statement. It might be very true as well when investing some more thoughts into it.


_________________
Diagnosed with Aspergers.
BSP-errors are awesome.


LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,195
Location: USA

24 Mar 2014, 11:24 pm

foxfield wrote:
This is nothing like engineers. To be a good engineer you need to be totally abstract, constantly come up with new solutions and ways of doing things, and think outside of the box. .


I think most "engineering jobs" need a grunt to repetitively perform some set of tasks, not someone to come up with new ideas.

-I have known "engineers" at Ford Motor company that inspect the vehicles (repetitive task).
-Cities may have an engineering office that has civil engineers to inspect drains, and inspect homes (repetitive tasks).
-"Software engineers" write code to a design using existing code i.e., functions they developed previously so programming becomes repetitively mechanistic
-My employment is engineering research, and my job is extremely repetitive.

It may seem counter-intuitive, however, the traits you mentioned of rigid concrete thinking, repetitive behavior, obsession with facts rather than meaning, and rigid routines may make an ASD person an excellent "grunt engineer".



Callista
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 10,775
Location: Ohio, USA

25 Mar 2014, 10:27 am

Many of us make decent innovators, actually. It's not that we're particularly creative; it's just that we don't really follow social conventions, and that includes not thinking in the way that other people think when they solve problems. Thinking of a new solution comes naturally to us even though, on average, we're no more creative than anyone else.

And I should remind you folks that "lack of creativity/lack of pretend play", while it is an autistic trait, is probably the single most disputed trait, and the one that so many autistics lack that some professionals consider the idea of autistics as lacking creativity to be a dead-end in research--that, in fact, the apparent lack of creativity is more a function of a diminished ability to participate in cooperative activities and a diminished desire to communicate ideas to others.


_________________
Reports from a Resident Alien:
http://chaoticidealism.livejournal.com

Autism Memorial:
http://autism-memorial.livejournal.com


AspieRunner
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jul 2013
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 33

25 Mar 2014, 10:41 am

Yes it is. There are many short-hand references in culture that can mean "Aspie".

"He is a software developer, you know how they are".



alwaysnow
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 90

25 Mar 2014, 1:31 pm

I have an "extreme systemizing brain" according to the test, but that's only because my EQ is very low.

The only reason my SQ side appear "stronger" and more pronounced is simply because my EQ side is very low in comparison.

I know there are aspies who have genuinely high SQ, while having low EQ, but then again you can have normal EQ and high SQ (essentially a technic-smart NT), also a "systemizing brain", but which would be much more qualified as an engineer than me.



foxfield
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 276
Location: UK

25 Mar 2014, 4:10 pm

I can easily believe that most Engineers have a high SQ yes. I just don't believe that having a high SQ fits in any way with the diagnositic criteria for aspergers/autism.

Take the following diagnostic criterion: "apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals".
Surely a lover of systems would not stick rigidly to an arbitrary routine, especially a "non-functional" one.
They would think about it, experiment a lot, and find the optimum.

And another..."encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus".
A lover of systems would be interested in patterns/structure of data rather than the data itself. For example, a systematically minded historian would see fundamental parallels between different broad areas of history, rather than e.g. knowing everything there is to know about Ancient Greece.

Highly systematic, scientific thinkers notoriously tend to be INTJ. As @LoveNotHate pointed out on the last page, one of the characteristics is big picture thinking. As I'm sure you all know, AS is associated with exactly the opposite.

Not that I am saying SBC is wrong. Or that you are wrong @Callista in saying that people with AS are often very innovative thinkers. I am saying that there is a mismatch between these theories and the diagnostic criteria. Maybe the criteria are out of date, and need sorting out.



foxfield
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 276
Location: UK

25 Mar 2014, 4:13 pm

alwaysnow wrote:
I have an "extreme systemizing brain" according to the test, but that's only because my EQ is very low.

The only reason my SQ side appear "stronger" and more pronounced is simply because my EQ side is very low in comparison.

I know there are aspies who have genuinely high SQ, while having low EQ, but then again you can have normal EQ and high SQ (essentially a technic-smart NT), also a "systemizing brain", but which would be much more qualified as an engineer than me.


That's an interesting point, I hadn't thought of the "Extreme Systemizing Brain" in that way. I had always just assumed it meant "very high SQ"



P192
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 34

25 Mar 2014, 4:29 pm

I agree with a lot of the previous posters, engineering requires skills that plays into a lot of people with AS' strengths. Visual perception, attention to detail, logical reasoning, diligence...all of these are assets in the world of engineering. Of course there's always exceptions.

It's interesting that engineers tend to have higher rates in their families, a lot of it could be socio-cultural as well as biology. Since there's no single "cause" of Autism Spectrums, it's probably a combination of different factors.



Rocket123
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,203
Location: Lost in Space

25 Mar 2014, 5:27 pm

foxfield wrote:
I can easily believe that most Engineers have a high SQ yes. I just don't believe that having a high SQ fits in any way with the diagnositic criteria for aspergers/autism.

Take the following diagnostic criterion: "apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals".
Surely a lover of systems would not stick rigidly to an arbitrary routine, especially a "non-functional" one.
They would think about it, experiment a lot, and find the optimum.


For me, these nonfunctional routines/rituals provide structure to an otherwise chaotic world. This allows me to focus on optimizing systems (in my case, software and people systems).

foxfield wrote:
And another..."encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus".
A lover of systems would be interested in patterns/structure of data rather than the data itself. For example, a systematically minded historian would see fundamental parallels between different broad areas of history, rather than e.g. knowing everything there is to know about Ancient Greece.


I always liked the way Temple Grandin described her thinking style. She writes: “All my thinking is bottom-up instead of top-down. I find lots of little details and put them together to form concepts and theories”.

I also have a bottoms-up thinking style. I only understand the system, after I have consumed all the details. Once done, I have a complete picture of the system and can run simulations through my head.

foxfield wrote:
Highly systematic, scientific thinkers notoriously tend to be INTJ. As @LoveNotHate pointed out on the last page, one of the characteristics is big picture thinking. As I'm sure you all know, AS is associated with exactly the opposite.


I tested as INTJ. Probably due to Fluid Reasoning (which was my highest score, by a fairly wide margin, on WAIS subtests).



ehymw
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Nov 2013
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 531

27 Mar 2014, 7:50 pm

Callista wrote:
Many of us make decent innovators, actually. It's not that we're particularly creative; it's just that we don't really follow social conventions, and that includes not thinking in the way that other people think when they solve problems. Thinking of a new solution comes naturally to us even though, on average, we're no more creative than anyone else.

And I should remind you folks that "lack of creativity/lack of pretend play", while it is an autistic trait, is probably the single most disputed trait, and the one that so many autistics lack that some professionals consider the idea of autistics as lacking creativity to be a dead-end in research--that, in fact, the apparent lack of creativity is more a function of a diminished ability to participate in cooperative activities and a diminished desire to communicate ideas to others.



"not that we're particularly creative?"

I beg to differ.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE-mxVxFXLg[/youtube]


Clearly SOME of us are extremely creative.



JakeDay
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 2 Oct 2013
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 219
Location: Melbourne Australia

27 Mar 2014, 11:58 pm

I'm very good at inventing and macguyvering things, but I dropped out of comp. sci. because it was BORING BORING BORING!! ! I have very little interest in engineering.

My strengths are in writing, visual art, musicianship. I'm also highly autistic.



LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,195
Location: USA

28 Mar 2014, 3:05 am

foxfield wrote:
I can easily believe that most Engineers have a high SQ yes. I just don't believe that having a high SQ fits in any way with the diagnositic criteria for aspergers/autism.

Take the following diagnostic criterion: "apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals".
Surely a lover of systems would not stick rigidly to an arbitrary routine, especially a "non-functional" one.
They would think about it, experiment a lot, and find the optimum.

And another..."encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus".
A lover of systems would be interested in patterns/structure of data rather than the data itself. For example, a systematically minded historian would see fundamental parallels between different broad areas of history, rather than e.g. knowing everything there is to know about Ancient Greece.

Highly systematic, scientific thinkers notoriously tend to be INTJ. As @LoveNotHate pointed out on the last page, one of the characteristics is big picture thinking. As I'm sure you all know, AS is associated with exactly the opposite.

Not that I am saying SBC is wrong. Or that you are wrong @Callista in saying that people with AS are often very innovative thinkers. I am saying that there is a mismatch between these theories and the diagnostic criteria. Maybe the criteria are out of date, and need sorting out.


This would seem like the expected fit for the "AS personality"

ISTP Personality ..

They like to take things apart and see the way they work (systemizer)
focus their attention on the details rather than the big picture, and on immediate realities rather than future possibilities
typically have strong powers of reasoning
they are happiest when they are centered in action-oriented tasks which require detailed logical analysis and technical skill
primary mode of living is focused internally, where you deal with things rationally and logically.
follow their own rules and guidelines for behavior faithfully.
loyal to their causes and beliefs, and are firm believers that people should be treated with equity and fairness
avoid making judgments based on personal values - they feel that judgments and decisions should be made impartially, based on the fact.
their sense of adventure and desire for constant action makes ISTPs prone to becoming bored rather quickly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISTP_(personality_type)
http://www.personalitypage.com/html/ISTP.html