Autism on 60 Minutes Show tonight

Post Reply New Topic

I think you might find that they (I) said otherwise.

But being NT doesn't help

I'm not sure I like your statistic. Where does it come from?

Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, Volume 45 Issue 2 Page 212 - February 2004, Adult outcome for children with autism,
"Sixty-eight individuals meeting criteria for autism and with a performance IQ of 50 or above in childhood were followed up as adults."
"Overall, only 12% were rated as having a 'Very Good' outcome"
(NB not even AS)


The burden should fall wholely on society. It is not the fault of auties/aspies that society is still not fully happy with them.

It isn't (yet) a perfect world. Let's hope it gets to be so.

Luckily the one way to "cure" us is to rewire our brains. And "prevention" means mass abortion of autistic fetuses. Even if they made a "cure" I would become an underground resistance fighter, a bit of a Magneto.

If I had a kid, I'd want it to be an Aspie and not an NT. I would teach that kid to appreciate who he or she is and that the mall and grocery store are optional. Social jobs are optional. I would tell my kid to enjoy who he or she is. There you go. You asked.


I don't see how the statistic can be correct since most adults are not diagnosed and frankly, functioning Aspies have no reason whatsoever to get diagnosed. It won't do a thing for them except get them labeled. That's the main reason most of us won't do it. Vernon Smith and Temple Grandin couldn't have been diagnosed until recently. You have to assume with that statistic that most of the adults diagnosed went because they weren't functioning. That's what would have driven them to get a diagnosis in the first place. Know what I mean? So, you just have to be careful with statistics like that when most functioning adults aren't even aware of the syndrome, much less diagnosed. It's kind of a hollow statistic right now. It might be that way for awhile.


My 23 years in the field says most of the geeks would be diagnosed borderline at best. That line is very blurred. Plenty of us are not neurotypical. It just isn't a field that attracts extoverted feelers, like the majority of NTs (that's based on Myers Briggs findings now). That kind of work makes them crazy because they want more people/people interaction. Yes, there are some NT geeks. But, I think the Silicone Valley finding is probably because geeks tend to marry and mate with geeks. What they will probably find to account for that is that both carried recessive genes or some other genetic trait that caused the rise in Autism/Asperger's. That would be very logical to me.

Last edited by ZanneMarie on 19 Feb 2007, 2:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

ZanneMarie and Flagg...thumbs up to you guys for being wired together so nicely!
ZanneMarie, may you have many children!
I personally have 2 children and 1 grandchild. My daughter is NT and my son is AS. They both turned out great and I'm truly proud of them! Neither of them are lonely and both are very happy, well-adjusted adults with much to offer the world! I shudder to think what a mess the world would be in without any Aspies in it.

There is nothing more disabling to an AS child than for that child to feel like something is wrong with him or her because the parents wish they could "fix" their AS baby!

Last edited by faithfilly on 19 Feb 2007, 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

It comes from a British study someone posted a link to a few weeks ago.




Well I will say the truly low spectrum should be given SSDI if they need it. I won't say all, but a lot, of Aspergers have very high IQ. Yet many Aspies think they should be allowed to draw SSDI and not work. A high IQ person just cannot justify drawing disability for Aspergers unless they also have some physical condition like pain or immobility. Now some may have extreme bi-polar or manic depression that makes them unable to work but that is not the same as true Aspergers.

Again seems unjust to the public to allow Aspies to get out of working. Just today a very, extremely low spectrum autistic guy bagged my groceries. He repeated the same greeting over and over three times like a recording. But he did his job; he bagged the groceries. So if he can work, why can't Aspies be expected to?

It has nothing to do with whether society is happy with them. Society should not have to support people who are just lazy and like to use their diagnosis as an excuse. Adults should not just be sitting on their behind all day at home when they can work and aren't raising kids or caring for another family member. Again Aspies are normally high IQ'ed thus they should be using there brillance to better the world, not sitting at home wasting brain cells.

Just because someone has a high IQ doesn't guarantee them a job. I have been discriminated against countless times because I think differently. Most of the problem in regards to employment comes from the ignorant majority getting to rule. Fortunately many Aspies have enough smarts to eventually find creative ways around the problems NTs give them.

If enough Aspies would respect the gifts they have and demand more honor, then the employment mess wouldn't be so bad. The job market isn't much different than the politics of school. Aspies can be forced into a group or team by the teacher, but if the others in that team/group will not appreciate the brain power of the Aspie given them...then they deserve what they get, whether it's a bad grade or having to provide social support financially. Plus, if an Aspie did receive financial support, it most likely took work to get it because social services gives handouts to them long after they have given handouts to illegal aliens.

This has been my story, exactly. My younger brother never attended college and my cousin is a high school dropout. Yet they both have far better jobs than I do, even though I have a college degree.

I can be the smartest person in the world but stupid HR people look at my differences, not my many qualifications. And when they reject me and others with AS because of their ignorance, not only do we lose out, the employers do as well.

I think you have to look at the whole picture of an Aspie. If the Aspie has high IQ but substantial stims, meltdowns and other things going on, that can be a serious issue to them getting work. Watch Mozart and the Whale to see an example of what can happen to a high IQ Aspie. His girlfriend eventually helps him find his place, looking at lines of statistics to find abnormalities. Probably something no one else could or would do and his boss tells him that in the interview. He says, "I don't know how to do that. No one I know knows how to do that."


Sometimes you just have to fall into it then seize the opportunity. I was made a Technical Writer because I was working the lowest level job in a bank (my husband said I had a brain and I had to go use it LOL) when my boss pulled me in and said, "They need a Technical Writer in conversions and mergers. You have an English degree (it was a BA in Creative Writing!), so you go there tomorrow and you'll be six salary grades higher." I was too naive to even realize I should have been afraid. I went there the next day, looked around, took down the old IBM manuals and wrote using their style and format. Hey, they were IBM! That was how I got my start. What I did after that fluke was to make sure I held on to it. I wasn't so naive that I didn't realize right away that this was the perfect job for me.


But in looking at Aspies, I think you have to look at the whole list of symptoms to say what is what. Many Aspies can overcome even bad effects. Temple Grandin must take medication to be able to do her job, yet she does it. I hate to see doctors and Psychiatrists speaking as if it's impossible. Too many kids feel that way anyway when they are so misunderstood. That is the last thing they need to hear. I had teachers who believed in me and worked hard to build separate curriculum for me so I could excel and develop my writing. I would say they probably feel good about how that worked out. They should. They definitely had a huge impact on me. They never made me just a strange person. They always made me feel special and gifted. That gave me self esteem and that is what made all the difference. That was why I never doubted I could do that job.

ZanneMarie, all of what you've said says it all. It would be a shame to begin going in the opposite direction now that so many possitive changes have begun for those with AS.

I grew up with nothing but criticism (for example, being told by my high school to forget college because I didn't have what it takes and my family never having confidence in anything I did nor ever acknowledging whatever accomplishments I did show). In hindsight, it seems the only thing professional counseling ever gave me was bad advice...constantly. The pattern was every time I complied, I regretted it. So, when I began to trust my own self for making my own decisions, I'd be glad I did.

Unfortunately, those of us who finally get it and solve much of the puzzle most of mankind cannot seem to understand, we learn to recognize who to stay far away from (ie; psychiatrists, psychologists, and many other social workers). Then what happens is our stories of how we succeed never make it into the statistics and the world ends up with a distorded picture.

Curebism run rampant. Interesting though, the part about changing behaviour changing brain chemistry. Who came up with that? We can learn behaviours, and practice them, and wear a mask, but changing the brain chemistry?? I'd very much like to see the data supporting that. Overall, any practicing doctor who wants celebrity status these days steps forward with grandiose claims about curing autism. I fear we'll be hip-deep in them very soon.

Ticker, you want the cure??

I know. It's a conundrum and sometimes I'll sit and spin it in my head for hours trying to figure out the solution. The best thing that could ever come out of looking at us would be to see what worked, but that would be frought with skewed information because so many variables have come into play by now. The results would never be Scientifically considered valid. Of course, I'm sure Psychiatry departments would use them anyway. They don't seem to mind junk Science as much as I do.


I only ever saw a Psychiatrist once when a roommate thought I should. I ended up freaking him out (he actually quit being a shrink afterward). It was more like I was randomly talking, realized my own problem, said intellectually this is what it is and thanks for your time. It wasn't for an AS problem, but I think that my behavior did put him over the edge. He did seem somewhat startled and alarmed by me. I think that happens because I'm like you (and please don't be offended) in that I look normal and then this strange behavior comes out. It's as if they aren't expecting it because I look normal.

Last edited by ZanneMarie on 19 Feb 2007, 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

I found the whole thing sad. The oldest boy in the family clearly needed help earlier, but didn't get it. The boy with Asperger's likewise needed some help in gaining social skills and self-confidence that he wasn't getting. However, I think they are overdoing it a bit with the youngest boy. Every move of his is going to scrutinized. I found the whole segment rather sad. I hated it.

I'm beginning to find such things as what you mention quite entertaining. That's what NTs get for thinking they can judge people.

I think there is much confusion with NTs when we act normal that we feel normal. I certainly didn't feel that way ever. It was a constant strain to "act" that way. It was exhausting and I never really felt much benefit. I know they would absolutely hate hearing this, but I enjoyed life so much more when I wasn't acting and I was just allowed to be me. I really, really enjoy the things I do and people don't get it. I just had it happen this morning. I went by my Dentist office to drop off a form. I was walking through the parking lot and on one of the gulf carts the retired people drive, there was this green and silver metallic spinner. I was watching it moving around in the breeze and suddenly it started spinning. Then, I was thinking about the time and space continuum and gravity and velocity. I was having a great time watching that thing and thinking about physics and what happens? Some well-meaning person grabs my arm and says, "Are you alright?" I thought I was going to jump out of my skin and they completely ruined it, not to mention they frightened me half to death. So, I jumped, then I stared with the blank look and I could see that look on their face like they were going to call someone and again they say, "Are you alright?" I finally say, "I was just looking at the spinner." They look at it and shake their head and walk away. I couldn't believe they ruined that moment. I felt frustrated, but I also felt sad that they could never appreciate a spinner moment for themselves.


I think beyond the fact that they don't realize we have value as we are, they also don't get that we actually enjoy many things about the way we are. At least I do. I like my spinner moments. Now I want to go look at the fastest spinning star. I wonder if you could see it would you realize it's spinning or if it spins too fast to actually see it happen. Maybe you'd get the sensation of watching a top spin. Hmmm I'll have to go look up how many times a top spins per second and see how they compare.

In reply to Tickler, I plead guilty on all counts. I'm sitting around all day, doing nothing useful and relying on welfare. Totally lazy. I fit into the NAS statistic of /not/ being one of the 12% of Aspies who are in employment.

However, in mitigation, I've probably racked up more hours graft, to date, that most people. Also, I'm not intentionally (maliciously?) unemployed - I just seem to be in a patch of my life where it's become... complicated? I'm sure I'll figure me out, given a bit of time.

In the meantime, I'll continue going to the NAS organised (oxymoron coming) Asperger Social Group meetings, seeing my counselor, etc, reading, browsing and generally finding out more about who I really am and how I will fit back into society (not as I did before, which was a charade, and I'm done with that).

Intesting how the CDC guy spoke on the prevalence,,that autism is not on the rise just, being diagnosed more

Last edited by EmmaMom on 19 Feb 2007, 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.